April 16, 2025
Houston, We Have a PR Problem (And the Delicate Art of Proving You're Right)
A rocket full of high-profile women launched into space, but the real spectacle might’ve been the PR machine that sent it there. From Katy Perry floating with daisies to Oprah crying on the ground, every moment of Blue Origin’s all-women flight felt like it was choreographed to go viral. It looked empowering on the surface, but the optics raised a bigger question: when the narrative feels off, who gets to push back—and how?
This episode is a smart, strategic walkthrough of how to correct the record without igniting a firestorm. Using a therapist-backed framework from relationship expert Dr. Abby Medcalf, this breakdown lays out the emotional and tactical roadmap to tell someone they’re wrong in a way they’ll actually hear. Because calling out the spin doesn’t have to burn everything down—if you know how to land the message.
What You'll Learn:
- The three-step framework for correcting someone without causing a blow-up
- Why even seasoned communicators get stuck defending bad stories
- How to separate honest feedback from ego-driven pushback
Want More Behind the Breakdown?
Follow The PR Breakdown with Molly McPherson on Substack for early access to podcast episodes, exclusive member chats, weekly lives, and monthly workshops that go deeper than the mic. It's the insider’s hub for communicators who want strategy with spine—and a little side-eye where it counts.
Follow me on Substack → @MollyMcPherson
Subscribe to PR Breakdown on Substack → prbreakdown.media
Need a Keynote Speaker? Drawing from real-world PR battles, Molly delivers the same engaging stories and hard-won crisis insights from the podcast to your live audience. Click here to book Molly for your next meeting.
Want more PR + Crisis Management insights?
- Watch Molly's videos and weekly livestreams: https://www.youtube.com/mollymcpherson
- Work with Molly: https://www.mollymcpherson.com/
Follow & Connect with Molly:
00:00 - Questioning the Blue Origin Space Flight
02:15 - Breaking Down the All-Women Crew
05:35 - Analyzing Celebrity Motivations
10:20 - Dr. Abby's Framework for Difficult Conversations
14:30 - Setting Intention and Creating Safe Space
18:40 - Connecting to Correct: Finding Middle Ground
WEBVTT
00:00:00.841 --> 00:00:04.573
One, two, three take us space.
00:00:07.681 --> 00:00:08.141
Gail?
00:00:08.141 --> 00:00:09.605
Why?
00:00:09.605 --> 00:00:11.329
Why this?
00:00:11.329 --> 00:00:22.910
Why strap yourself into Jeff Bezos' giant metaphor of a rocket for what clearly looks like a high-gloss publicity stunt?
00:00:22.910 --> 00:00:26.114
What made you wake up one morning and say you know what I need?
00:00:26.114 --> 00:00:32.093
I need a little space travel with Katy Perry and a billionaire's girlfriend.
00:00:32.093 --> 00:00:36.847
No, this isn't shade, it is genuine curiosity.
00:00:36.847 --> 00:00:39.573
Okay, there's a lot of side eye here.
00:00:39.573 --> 00:00:43.249
Let's talk about this space flight, shall we?
00:00:43.249 --> 00:00:46.405
Welcome to the PR Breakdown?
00:00:46.405 --> 00:00:58.954
I'm your host, molly McPherson, and, for the record, I was not invited into space, was it my bixie cut Not enough hair to float dramatically in zero gravity.
00:00:58.954 --> 00:01:02.750
Not enough influencer energy.
00:01:02.750 --> 00:01:04.563
I can't sing.
00:01:04.563 --> 00:01:06.168
I'm not going on tour.
00:01:12.359 --> 00:01:14.308
Either way, this episode is a mashup of strategy, psychology and a touch of chaos.
00:01:14.308 --> 00:01:19.929
In this episode I'm asking the question how do you tell someone they're wrong without setting everything on fire?
00:01:19.929 --> 00:01:26.052
Recently I brought in friend of the podcast, dr Abby Medcalf.
00:01:26.052 --> 00:01:34.846
She is a therapist, a relationship expert, who knows how to make even the most defensive boss client you to.
00:01:34.846 --> 00:01:37.388
Okay, I'm listening, and bring it to life.
00:01:37.388 --> 00:02:11.697
I thought what better case study than the Blue Origin all-women space flight, aka Jeff Bezos and his publicity machine launching into space, branding optics, possibly overcompensation.
00:02:11.697 --> 00:02:27.155
But I'll walk you through Abby's framework as we walk through an imaginary, slightly cheeky but sincerely curious conversation with Gayle King, after listening to her defend this spaceflight.
00:02:29.320 --> 00:02:31.568
So what do you think when people say, oh, it's frivolous.
00:02:31.568 --> 00:02:36.133
Number one, they call it a ride, which I find very irritating because they never say men went for a ride.
00:02:36.133 --> 00:02:39.846
What do you say to people who think that this was frivolous or just a ride?
00:02:39.846 --> 00:02:43.584
You know, I think the message that it sends is very, very powerful.
00:02:43.584 --> 00:02:45.409
And the people that say that, by the way, weren't they?
00:02:45.409 --> 00:02:49.703
And I don't work for the origin, but I think I was one of these people that go.
00:02:49.703 --> 00:02:50.885
I don't know why we got to do this.
00:02:50.885 --> 00:02:55.907
Until you educate yourself and see what is happening there, I think you'll have a very different perspective.
00:02:56.539 --> 00:02:58.782
Ask her really why she's defending it.
00:02:58.782 --> 00:03:14.707
I think it's a lesson that anyone can use, because, you know me, I love offering lessons to communicators, but also people who communicate in life, because even the best communicators can end up defending the indefensible when the story gets muddled.
00:03:14.707 --> 00:03:17.193
First, let's start out with some facts.
00:03:17.193 --> 00:03:30.985
When you go to Wikipedia now, under April 2025, blue Origin, jeff Bezos he will be the person behind launching its first all-women crew to the edge of space.
00:03:30.985 --> 00:03:38.496
The crew included Lauren Sanchez, the mission organizer, also philanthropist.
00:03:38.496 --> 00:03:44.610
What Journalist, former journalist and, yes, jeff Bezos' fiance.
00:03:44.610 --> 00:03:52.247
Gayle King, cbs journalist, bff Oprah she's turning 70 and reaching for the stars.
00:03:52.247 --> 00:03:58.804
There is Katy Perry, who is a oh gosh, wikipedia, my color pop icon.
00:03:58.804 --> 00:04:02.031
I call her a slightly washed up one.
00:04:02.031 --> 00:04:07.002
She's going on tour more on that later and her tickets are having trouble selling.
00:04:07.002 --> 00:04:11.651
But hey, nothing like launching into space to launch those ticket sales.
00:04:11.651 --> 00:04:16.370
Aisha Bowe she's an aerospace engineer and the first Bahamian woman now in space.
00:04:16.370 --> 00:04:28.644
Amanda Nguyen she's a civil rights activist and scientist and when she tells a story about why she wanted to take this trip into space, she speaks about justice.
00:04:28.644 --> 00:04:31.353
She's a victim of sexual violence.
00:04:31.353 --> 00:04:32.557
It's a very sad story.
00:04:32.557 --> 00:04:41.307
In an interview she said that she always wanted to be an astronaut, but fighting for justice for women who have been abused came first, so that's very noble.
00:04:41.307 --> 00:04:44.261
And then also Carrie Ann Flynn, who's a film producer.
00:04:44.781 --> 00:04:46.101
Jeff Bezos is no dummy.
00:04:46.101 --> 00:04:53.146
He's not just going to send up a crew of online influencers and people who could get him publicity.
00:04:53.146 --> 00:04:54.627
That's a powerful lineup.
00:04:54.627 --> 00:05:03.834
There were real firsts here and there was real inspiration, but it was also a textbook PR formation.
00:05:03.834 --> 00:05:13.891
Jeff hit all the demo boxes science, activism, celebrity media, his girlfriend.
00:05:13.891 --> 00:05:15.855
He wanted to make it historic.
00:05:15.855 --> 00:05:18.401
He wanted to get the Wikipedia annotation.
00:05:18.401 --> 00:05:23.853
He wanted to make history, but he also wanted it to trend on TikTok Instagram.
00:05:23.853 --> 00:05:28.124
But he also wanted it to trend on TikTok Instagram and in the news cycle.
00:05:28.124 --> 00:05:33.862
And then there was the rocket which, I'm sorry, looks like it was designed in a frat house in their marketing meeting.
00:05:33.862 --> 00:05:36.572
The symbolism is not subtle.
00:05:36.952 --> 00:05:41.324
Let's just say I know this is an audio podcast, but just Google it if you haven't seen it.
00:05:41.324 --> 00:05:44.951
And did I watch the broadcast on YouTube.
00:05:44.951 --> 00:05:57.100
But if you haven't seen it and did I watch the broadcast on YouTube the Blue Origin broadcast getting ready to launch, I did.
00:05:57.100 --> 00:05:57.442
Katy Perry, okay.
00:05:57.442 --> 00:06:04.567
So her being interviewed by an all-female broadcast crew acting like this is the first mission into space, honestly, and all it is to me is one big promotional video.
00:06:04.567 --> 00:06:05.329
That's all it looks like.
00:06:06.259 --> 00:06:09.406
She sang the song what a Wonderful World midair.
00:06:09.406 --> 00:06:13.141
She was also holding a daisy for her daughter, daisy.
00:06:13.141 --> 00:06:17.951
In an interview before launch she talked about how important this mission was.
00:06:17.951 --> 00:06:20.665
I don't think her husband, orlando Bloom, was there.
00:06:20.665 --> 00:06:22.689
Is he her husband or just boyfriend?
00:06:22.689 --> 00:06:24.103
They have a daughter, daisy.
00:06:24.103 --> 00:06:28.399
She just talked about how important it was to Daisy and went on and on and on about how important it was.
00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:34.293
Also, her mom, when she came off the flight, she said in the interview.
00:06:34.293 --> 00:06:42.261
She said oh, you know, this is so important to my mom because the person interviewer said and your mom was here and she's like I don't know where she is, like, is that like?
00:06:42.261 --> 00:06:45.002
She came off and like launched into her mother's arm.
00:06:45.002 --> 00:06:52.463
No, she came off, kissed the ground, but she also launched the set list to her upcoming tour.
00:06:52.463 --> 00:06:56.404
I think that just ends the argument right there.
00:06:57.625 --> 00:07:00.675
She launched and then launched.
00:07:00.675 --> 00:07:05.951
It wasn't about her daughter, it wasn't about space exploration, it certainly wasn't about her mother.
00:07:05.951 --> 00:07:07.992
It was publicity.
00:07:07.992 --> 00:07:11.353
And Lauren Sanchez, oh my gosh.
00:07:11.353 --> 00:07:23.826
So she in the broadcast was bringing up one of the color commentators up in her helicopter because she's a helicopter pilot, her father was a pilot and she's wearing everything is tight.
00:07:23.826 --> 00:07:27.297
With Lauren Sanchez, everything is tight and her hair is flowing everywhere.
00:07:27.297 --> 00:07:37.841
Any woman watching this footage and really the whole footage of the flight all you want is a little tie to put it back, to put the hair back, because there's hair everywhere.
00:07:37.841 --> 00:07:42.132
Jeff Bezos needs a big rocket ship to feel like a man.
00:07:42.132 --> 00:07:52.319
Lauren Sanchez needs tight clothes and her hair and her lips and it is so, so, so difficult to take her seriously.
00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:56.369
This is not to knock her looks or her beauty or anything like that.
00:07:56.369 --> 00:08:06.461
It's the juxtaposition of both when the theatrics, the choreographic nature to it, the wardrobe as well.
00:08:06.461 --> 00:08:11.735
But then there's Gayle King and Gayle honestly she doesn't want to be up there.
00:08:11.735 --> 00:08:12.870
She doesn't want to do this.
00:08:12.870 --> 00:08:18.589
Cbs struggling, massive cutbacks Well at all, the morning shows.
00:08:18.589 --> 00:08:19.392
They're all cutting back.
00:08:19.392 --> 00:08:20.656
She doesn't want to do it.
00:08:20.656 --> 00:08:23.571
But she in the interviews talked about her kitchen cabinet.
00:08:23.704 --> 00:08:30.036
Three people I asked about this space exploration Her daughter, her son and then, of course, oprah.
00:08:30.036 --> 00:08:37.315
Now we could not have a Blue Origins launch without Oprah somewhere in the mix.
00:08:37.315 --> 00:08:40.114
She was definitely there on land crying.
00:08:40.114 --> 00:08:41.725
They had footage of Oprah crying.
00:08:41.725 --> 00:08:51.472
I know there's some people out there, women out there, who are defending this and saying this is important for women and they're hating on all the other women who are hating on this flight.
00:08:51.472 --> 00:09:17.557
And I'm a commentator on calling PR campaigns when I see it, and let's just be honest, you cannot have an argument about how important this flight was to women without mentioning that Katy Perry launched her set list during the flight.
00:09:17.557 --> 00:09:19.909
Okay, I stand by that.
00:09:19.909 --> 00:09:23.395
This is the hill I will die on.
00:09:23.395 --> 00:09:26.667
This is the spaceship I will go into space on.
00:09:26.667 --> 00:09:30.953
It was all for publicity, for blue origins.
00:09:30.953 --> 00:09:34.686
Jeff Bezos who else happens to be in the news nowadays?
00:09:34.686 --> 00:09:41.794
Musk who else is a billionaire who has a fixation with space?
00:09:41.794 --> 00:09:47.770
Musk, this was all about Bezos, and if you want to come at me, that's fine.
00:09:47.770 --> 00:09:48.794
I respect you.
00:09:48.794 --> 00:09:52.264
I don't disrespect the argument towards women at all.
00:09:52.264 --> 00:09:57.847
I respect it, but this is not the argument about respecting women.
00:09:57.847 --> 00:10:05.312
Hey, if there's one hair tie in space, maybe, maybe, but all the hair flying, no.
00:10:05.532 --> 00:10:19.457
In this episode, I want to walk you through Dr Abby's three steps for how we can walk through conflict when you know they're wrong.
00:10:19.457 --> 00:10:20.918
This could be a boss.
00:10:20.918 --> 00:10:22.200
This could be a colleague.
00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:26.182
This could be a situation that I had to give one of my daughters yesterday.
00:10:26.182 --> 00:10:30.023
This could be a partner, someone in your life.
00:10:30.023 --> 00:10:37.245
This could be a parent, a kid, whatever it is.
00:10:37.245 --> 00:10:38.307
Whomever you need to tell that they're wrong.
00:10:38.307 --> 00:10:39.227
These are three steps that, wow, they work.
00:10:39.227 --> 00:10:40.509
These are three steps that, wow, they work.
00:10:40.529 --> 00:10:47.297
Dr Abby delivered this advice to me just yesterday in a live interview on my Substack.
00:10:47.297 --> 00:10:49.719
You can find me at Molly McPherson on Substack.
00:10:49.719 --> 00:10:52.302
I often do lives on there.
00:10:52.302 --> 00:10:56.629
This was my first interview, which was a whole lot of fun.
00:10:56.629 --> 00:10:59.456
I posted it to my Substack so you can watch the entire interview with Dr Abby.
00:10:59.456 --> 00:11:02.400
She's going to be coming back and speaking in my members-only section in the future because everyone with Dr Abby.
00:11:02.400 --> 00:11:07.017
She's going to be coming back and speaking in my members-only section in the future because everyone loves Dr Abby.
00:11:07.437 --> 00:11:25.607
I'm going to walk through the three steps that she provided, but I'm going to use it in the premise of me having a conversation with Gayle King about why this probably wasn't the best mission to be a part of, or one that you at least wanted to defend.
00:11:25.607 --> 00:11:28.475
She could still do it and be a part of it, but defending it.
00:11:28.475 --> 00:11:31.549
That's where I have the issue with Gail on this.
00:11:31.549 --> 00:11:40.155
Telling someone that they're wrong often feels like war, because truth rarely lands softly, even when said kindly.
00:11:40.155 --> 00:11:47.714
There is a cost of defensiveness, whether it's in leadership or politics and PR crisis management.
00:11:47.714 --> 00:11:55.051
Take a listen to Dr Abbey explain why telling someone they're wrong feels like an attack.
00:11:55.852 --> 00:11:59.346
I always want to tell people is that being attacked is in the eye of the beholder.
00:11:59.346 --> 00:12:05.975
We feel attacked when we feel like we're not valued, and we feel like we're not valued when we think you disagree with us.
00:12:07.125 --> 00:12:16.513
If this is an interview with your boss, you are not going to do it in their office, with them sitting at the desk, with the desk in front of them.
00:12:16.513 --> 00:12:18.057
The barrier then you.
00:12:18.057 --> 00:12:22.975
That's the normal leadership subordinate setup.
00:12:22.975 --> 00:12:26.750
You want to be someplace else, walking down a hall outside.
00:12:26.750 --> 00:12:30.466
You won't want to have this conversation in a place where you typically have arguments.
00:12:30.466 --> 00:12:33.453
So Dr Abbey says you want to prep.
00:12:33.453 --> 00:12:34.798
She said it's like painting a room.
00:12:34.798 --> 00:12:38.251
You don't just buy paints and brushes and start painting.
00:12:38.251 --> 00:12:41.326
No, the prep of a room takes a lot of work.
00:12:41.326 --> 00:12:46.725
You are buying the paint and you're buying the paintbrushes, but you're also buying the painter's tape and you're taping it off.
00:12:46.725 --> 00:12:48.250
You also have to pick up the color.
00:12:48.250 --> 00:12:50.219
Painting is the easier part.
00:12:50.219 --> 00:12:52.784
You just slap on the paint and go from there.
00:12:52.784 --> 00:12:57.067
The same with this conversation you have to prep it.
00:12:57.607 --> 00:13:07.313
Let's say I meet Gayle King and she wants to talk to me about the public reaction to the Blue Origin flight.
00:13:07.313 --> 00:13:09.235
She received a lot hires me.
00:13:09.235 --> 00:13:25.631
It doesn't mean everything I say to my client about their crisis management is going to be well-received.
00:13:25.631 --> 00:13:31.392
Most often it's not for the reason that people are defensive With Gail.
00:13:31.392 --> 00:13:40.639
We're going to be walking down the street, perhaps lattes in hands, comfortable shoes, zero media presence, no Oprah, no Oprah, just me and Gail.
00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:42.115
We're having a conversation.
00:13:42.115 --> 00:13:44.788
Okay, Gail, you wanted to talk about the Blue Origin flight.
00:13:44.788 --> 00:13:47.537
This won't be a critique, at least not in the internet sense.
00:13:47.537 --> 00:13:50.974
I mean, I'm not going to come at you, but let's talk about the story.
00:13:50.974 --> 00:13:53.466
I want to understand it because I respect you.
00:13:53.466 --> 00:13:56.932
I want us both to walk away from this feeling clear.
00:13:56.932 --> 00:14:02.220
I'm genuinely curious about what you got out of it, but I'm curious what you think on it.
00:14:02.220 --> 00:14:04.226
There needs to be mutual respect.
00:14:04.226 --> 00:14:09.015
Then we move to step two, and that's setting the intention.
00:14:10.577 --> 00:14:17.476
Number two is to say out loud hey, is this a good time to talk to you about X, right?
00:14:17.476 --> 00:14:19.285
And then wait for an answer yes or no?
00:14:19.285 --> 00:14:20.931
They'll say yes or no.
00:14:20.931 --> 00:14:26.171
My goal is to find a solution together that really fits for both of us.
00:14:26.171 --> 00:14:27.693
I value you.
00:14:27.693 --> 00:14:29.298
I want you to feel that for me.
00:14:29.298 --> 00:14:34.336
It will only be to me a good solution if we're both on the same page about it.
00:14:34.985 --> 00:14:35.648
You know what, gail?
00:14:35.648 --> 00:14:38.015
My goal here is to figure this out together.
00:14:38.015 --> 00:14:50.369
I want to understand where you're coming from and then I'll share where things didn't quite land for me, which might translate into the public sentiment, which is resoundingly negative.
00:14:50.369 --> 00:14:52.332
Because, gail, I value you.
00:14:52.332 --> 00:15:00.749
I know you don't put your name on fluff, but I also know you're up for anything, so I can absolutely see why you landed in space.
00:15:00.749 --> 00:15:02.690
So I can absolutely see why you landed in space.
00:15:02.690 --> 00:15:06.493
I value you and I want to hear what brought you there.
00:15:06.493 --> 00:15:08.033
What an opportunity.
00:15:08.033 --> 00:15:08.994
Tell me about it.
00:15:08.994 --> 00:15:11.475
It's all about the process.
00:15:11.956 --> 00:15:21.042
What I'll do like, let's say I've got a CEO I'm talking to, right, and he let's say it's a he and he is up in it, okay, and I'll just stop and I'll say scale one to six right now.
00:15:21.042 --> 00:15:22.186
How are you doing so?
00:15:22.186 --> 00:15:29.167
Always use Got one to three and you got four, five, six, so I know where you are.
00:15:29.167 --> 00:15:33.049
So I'll say six You're like super anxious about what's going on right now.
00:15:33.049 --> 00:15:35.631
One is you feel really calm and collected about this?
00:15:35.631 --> 00:15:38.514
Six is you feel like your message was really heard.
00:15:38.514 --> 00:15:40.375
People really get what you're saying?
00:15:40.375 --> 00:15:43.256
Six you feel really confident about what you're saying?
00:15:43.256 --> 00:15:44.437
One you're not so sure.
00:15:44.437 --> 00:15:46.078
Right, I just find out where they are.
00:15:46.078 --> 00:15:55.956
But what you're doing is you're getting people out of the past and out of the future and into the present, because the present is where they could actually think clearly.
00:15:55.956 --> 00:16:04.451
Again, they can't think clearly when they're in fight, flight or freeze, when they're in their amygdala or people pleasing you know we call it fawning when they're in that you can't help them.
00:16:05.787 --> 00:16:13.755
We want to ask questions, bring the conversation into the present and interrupt the ego spin cycle.
00:16:13.755 --> 00:16:17.697
When people are on the defensive, it's ego because they're afraid.
00:16:17.697 --> 00:16:24.436
It's fear, they're worried about their standing, whether it's in a job, whether it's in the relationship, they're worried.
00:16:24.436 --> 00:16:27.070
That's when you start asking them the questions.
00:16:27.070 --> 00:16:32.029
So, gail, let me ask you on a scale of one to six six being incredible how was the launch?
00:16:32.029 --> 00:16:33.953
She'd likely say six.
00:16:33.953 --> 00:16:40.631
Then my next question would be okay, same scale when are you at with how the launch was received?
00:16:40.631 --> 00:16:42.256
How do you think people received it?
00:16:42.256 --> 00:16:44.047
Then she'll give a number.
00:16:44.047 --> 00:16:51.977
I'm thinking Gail would say three, when really she knows it's probably somewhere between one and two.
00:16:51.977 --> 00:16:55.609
Gail, what do you want people to take from it?
00:16:55.609 --> 00:17:02.471
When you floated up there and Katy Perry was holding that daisy, what was that moment supposed to mean?
00:17:02.471 --> 00:17:09.471
Maybe then Gail's going to tell me I wanted young girls to see that age doesn't define ambition, that joy matters.
00:17:09.471 --> 00:17:11.935
I could say wow, gail, I love that.
00:17:11.935 --> 00:17:15.367
But here's where I got stuck.
00:17:15.567 --> 00:17:22.784
From the outside, people may have looked at this as a Jeff Bezos project.
00:17:22.784 --> 00:17:24.547
It felt a little curated.
00:17:24.547 --> 00:17:39.074
Yes, you have engineers and scientists, and then Katy Perry like doing zero gravity spins and we saw the made for TikTok moments singing, launching the set list.
00:17:39.074 --> 00:17:57.096
To a lot of people it looked like a billionaire's idea of a branded empowerment launch Less NASA, more Netflix, especially considering that so many people are hurting right now, so many people are losing their jobs, so many people are worried about the economy.
00:17:57.096 --> 00:17:59.332
How much is it to go into space?
00:18:00.034 --> 00:18:04.348
I read somewhere well, I wouldn't say that Now I'm being sarcastic and now I'm being Molly on the podcast.
00:18:04.348 --> 00:18:06.836
This is my conversation with Gail Gail.
00:18:06.836 --> 00:18:14.309
I read somewhere some people were saying that it costs like $500,000 to launch one person in that rocket ship.
00:18:14.309 --> 00:18:18.553
You have to pay $150,000 deposit, which I assume none of you paid.
00:18:18.553 --> 00:18:30.041
Right, you know, with a number like that, with people hurting, while a presidency might likely be launching us towards a recession or a depression, do you see why people might feel it was a little off?
00:18:30.041 --> 00:18:33.990
Then she might say well, yes, then Gail would give her spin.
00:18:33.990 --> 00:18:40.030
Now Gail the journalist would probably come in and start thinking a little more clearly on this.
00:18:40.030 --> 00:18:45.048
Then I would ask Gail, what would you say to people who saw it as a publicity move and not progress?
00:18:45.048 --> 00:18:49.534
Here's what Dr Abbey says is to let them tell you what's wrong.
00:18:50.055 --> 00:19:00.451
You have to remember that you have to connect to correct, which means you have to have some connection first to correct someone.
00:19:00.451 --> 00:19:06.232
We don't want to change things for someone we think is mad at us or doesn't like us or disagrees with us.
00:19:06.865 --> 00:19:07.366
They know.
00:19:07.366 --> 00:19:11.255
You just need to get them present enough to say it.
00:19:11.255 --> 00:19:18.996
Gail needs to be in a safe enough space where she can recognize why the backlash was there.
00:19:18.996 --> 00:19:22.367
She can admit it because you know she's thinking this.
00:19:22.367 --> 00:19:28.788
Tom Cruise, daniel Caffey he knows Colonel Jessup Jack Nicholson wants to say that he ordered the code red.
00:19:28.788 --> 00:19:30.109
He wants to say it.
00:19:30.109 --> 00:19:33.896
I'm Daniel Caffey, gayle King is Colonel Jessup.
00:19:34.217 --> 00:19:36.707
Gayle will say something like this I get it, I really do.
00:19:36.707 --> 00:19:41.218
Then she'll add but the messages I got from the girls afterward that made it worth it.
00:19:41.218 --> 00:19:43.007
Was it packaging?
00:19:43.007 --> 00:19:43.788
Was it polished?
00:19:43.788 --> 00:19:46.852
Sure, but the impact, that was real.
00:19:46.852 --> 00:19:50.978
You're going to get her to understand it from both sides.
00:19:51.398 --> 00:19:58.596
It's not a takedown of a person, it's just finding that safe space right in the middle.
00:19:58.596 --> 00:20:06.458
Gail is absolutely going to understand that it was a PR stunt, but it was also inspiring for a lot of women and girls.
00:20:06.458 --> 00:20:09.373
I don't know who they are, but there are plenty there.
00:00:00.841 --> 00:00:04.573
00:00:07.681 --> 00:00:08.141
00:00:08.141 --> 00:00:09.605
00:00:09.605 --> 00:00:11.329
00:00:11.329 --> 00:00:22.910
00:00:22.910 --> 00:00:26.114
00:00:26.114 --> 00:00:32.093
00:00:32.093 --> 00:00:36.847
00:00:36.847 --> 00:00:39.573
00:00:39.573 --> 00:00:43.249
00:00:43.249 --> 00:00:46.405
00:00:46.405 --> 00:00:58.954
00:00:58.954 --> 00:01:02.750
00:01:02.750 --> 00:01:04.563
00:01:04.563 --> 00:01:06.168
00:01:12.359 --> 00:01:14.308
00:01:14.308 --> 00:01:19.929
00:01:19.929 --> 00:01:26.052
00:01:26.052 --> 00:01:34.846
00:01:34.846 --> 00:01:37.388
00:01:37.388 --> 00:02:11.697
00:02:11.697 --> 00:02:27.155
00:02:29.320 --> 00:02:31.568
00:02:31.568 --> 00:02:36.133
00:02:36.133 --> 00:02:39.846
00:02:39.846 --> 00:02:43.584
00:02:43.584 --> 00:02:45.409
00:02:45.409 --> 00:02:49.703
00:02:49.703 --> 00:02:50.885
00:02:50.885 --> 00:02:55.907
00:02:56.539 --> 00:02:58.782
00:02:58.782 --> 00:03:14.707
00:03:14.707 --> 00:03:17.193
00:03:17.193 --> 00:03:30.985
00:03:30.985 --> 00:03:38.496
00:03:38.496 --> 00:03:44.610
00:03:44.610 --> 00:03:52.247
00:03:52.247 --> 00:03:58.804
00:03:58.804 --> 00:04:02.031
00:04:02.031 --> 00:04:07.002
00:04:07.002 --> 00:04:11.651
00:04:11.651 --> 00:04:16.370
00:04:16.370 --> 00:04:28.644
00:04:28.644 --> 00:04:31.353
00:04:31.353 --> 00:04:32.557
00:04:32.557 --> 00:04:41.307
00:04:41.307 --> 00:04:44.261
00:04:44.781 --> 00:04:46.101
00:04:46.101 --> 00:04:53.146
00:04:53.146 --> 00:04:54.627
00:04:54.627 --> 00:05:03.834
00:05:03.834 --> 00:05:13.891
00:05:13.891 --> 00:05:15.855
00:05:15.855 --> 00:05:18.401
00:05:18.401 --> 00:05:23.853
00:05:23.853 --> 00:05:28.124
00:05:28.124 --> 00:05:33.862
00:05:33.862 --> 00:05:36.572
00:05:36.952 --> 00:05:41.324
00:05:41.324 --> 00:05:44.951
00:05:44.951 --> 00:05:57.100
00:05:57.100 --> 00:05:57.442
00:05:57.442 --> 00:06:04.567
00:06:04.567 --> 00:06:05.329
00:06:06.259 --> 00:06:09.406
00:06:09.406 --> 00:06:13.141
00:06:13.141 --> 00:06:17.951
00:06:17.951 --> 00:06:20.665
00:06:20.665 --> 00:06:22.689
00:06:22.689 --> 00:06:24.103
00:06:24.103 --> 00:06:28.399
00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:34.293
00:06:34.293 --> 00:06:42.261
00:06:42.261 --> 00:06:45.002
00:06:45.002 --> 00:06:52.463
00:06:52.463 --> 00:06:56.404
00:06:57.625 --> 00:07:00.675
00:07:00.675 --> 00:07:05.951
00:07:05.951 --> 00:07:07.992
00:07:07.992 --> 00:07:11.353
00:07:11.353 --> 00:07:23.826
00:07:23.826 --> 00:07:27.297
00:07:27.297 --> 00:07:37.841
00:07:37.841 --> 00:07:42.132
00:07:42.132 --> 00:07:52.319
00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:56.369
00:07:56.369 --> 00:08:06.461
00:08:06.461 --> 00:08:11.735
00:08:11.735 --> 00:08:12.870
00:08:12.870 --> 00:08:18.589
00:08:18.589 --> 00:08:19.392
00:08:19.392 --> 00:08:20.656
00:08:20.656 --> 00:08:23.571
00:08:23.704 --> 00:08:30.036
00:08:30.036 --> 00:08:37.315
00:08:37.315 --> 00:08:40.114
00:08:40.114 --> 00:08:41.725
00:08:41.725 --> 00:08:51.472
00:08:51.472 --> 00:09:17.557
00:09:17.557 --> 00:09:19.909
00:09:19.909 --> 00:09:23.395
00:09:23.395 --> 00:09:26.667
00:09:26.667 --> 00:09:30.953
00:09:30.953 --> 00:09:34.686
00:09:34.686 --> 00:09:41.794
00:09:41.794 --> 00:09:47.770
00:09:47.770 --> 00:09:48.794
00:09:48.794 --> 00:09:52.264
00:09:52.264 --> 00:09:57.847
00:09:57.847 --> 00:10:05.312
00:10:05.532 --> 00:10:19.457
00:10:19.457 --> 00:10:20.918
00:10:20.918 --> 00:10:22.200
00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:26.182
00:10:26.182 --> 00:10:30.023
00:10:30.023 --> 00:10:37.245
00:10:37.245 --> 00:10:38.307
00:10:38.307 --> 00:10:39.227
00:10:39.227 --> 00:10:40.509
00:10:40.529 --> 00:10:47.297
00:10:47.297 --> 00:10:49.719
00:10:49.719 --> 00:10:52.302
00:10:52.302 --> 00:10:56.629
00:10:56.629 --> 00:10:59.456
00:10:59.456 --> 00:11:02.400
00:11:02.400 --> 00:11:07.017
00:11:07.437 --> 00:11:25.607
00:11:25.607 --> 00:11:28.475
00:11:28.475 --> 00:11:31.549
00:11:31.549 --> 00:11:40.155
00:11:40.155 --> 00:11:47.714
00:11:47.714 --> 00:11:55.051
00:11:55.852 --> 00:11:59.346
00:11:59.346 --> 00:12:05.975
00:12:07.125 --> 00:12:16.513
00:12:16.513 --> 00:12:18.057
00:12:18.057 --> 00:12:22.975
00:12:22.975 --> 00:12:26.750
00:12:26.750 --> 00:12:30.466
00:12:30.466 --> 00:12:33.453
00:12:33.453 --> 00:12:34.798
00:12:34.798 --> 00:12:38.251
00:12:38.251 --> 00:12:41.326
00:12:41.326 --> 00:12:46.725
00:12:46.725 --> 00:12:48.250
00:12:48.250 --> 00:12:50.219
00:12:50.219 --> 00:12:52.784
00:12:52.784 --> 00:12:57.067
00:12:57.607 --> 00:13:07.313
00:13:07.313 --> 00:13:09.235
00:13:09.235 --> 00:13:25.631
00:13:25.631 --> 00:13:31.392
00:13:31.392 --> 00:13:40.639
00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:42.115
00:13:42.115 --> 00:13:44.788
00:13:44.788 --> 00:13:47.537
00:13:47.537 --> 00:13:50.974
00:13:50.974 --> 00:13:53.466
00:13:53.466 --> 00:13:56.932
00:13:56.932 --> 00:14:02.220
00:14:02.220 --> 00:14:04.226
00:14:04.226 --> 00:14:09.015
00:14:10.577 --> 00:14:17.476
00:14:17.476 --> 00:14:19.285
00:14:19.285 --> 00:14:20.931
00:14:20.931 --> 00:14:26.171
00:14:26.171 --> 00:14:27.693
00:14:27.693 --> 00:14:29.298
00:14:29.298 --> 00:14:34.336
00:14:34.985 --> 00:14:35.648
00:14:35.648 --> 00:14:38.015
00:14:38.015 --> 00:14:50.369
00:14:50.369 --> 00:14:52.332
00:14:52.332 --> 00:15:00.749
00:15:00.749 --> 00:15:02.690
00:15:02.690 --> 00:15:06.493
00:15:06.493 --> 00:15:08.033
00:15:08.033 --> 00:15:08.994
00:15:08.994 --> 00:15:11.475
00:15:11.956 --> 00:15:21.042
00:15:21.042 --> 00:15:22.186
00:15:22.186 --> 00:15:29.167
00:15:29.167 --> 00:15:33.049
00:15:33.049 --> 00:15:35.631
00:15:35.631 --> 00:15:38.514
00:15:38.514 --> 00:15:40.375
00:15:40.375 --> 00:15:43.256
00:15:43.256 --> 00:15:44.437
00:15:44.437 --> 00:15:46.078
00:15:46.078 --> 00:15:55.956
00:15:55.956 --> 00:16:04.451
00:16:05.787 --> 00:16:13.755
00:16:13.755 --> 00:16:17.697
00:16:17.697 --> 00:16:24.436
00:16:24.436 --> 00:16:27.070
00:16:27.070 --> 00:16:32.029
00:16:32.029 --> 00:16:33.953
00:16:33.953 --> 00:16:40.631
00:16:40.631 --> 00:16:42.256
00:16:42.256 --> 00:16:44.047
00:16:44.047 --> 00:16:51.977
00:16:51.977 --> 00:16:55.609
00:16:55.609 --> 00:17:02.471
00:17:02.471 --> 00:17:09.471
00:17:09.471 --> 00:17:11.935
00:17:11.935 --> 00:17:15.367
00:17:15.567 --> 00:17:22.784
00:17:22.784 --> 00:17:24.547
00:17:24.547 --> 00:17:39.074
00:17:39.074 --> 00:17:57.096
00:17:57.096 --> 00:17:59.332
00:18:00.034 --> 00:18:04.348
00:18:04.348 --> 00:18:06.836
00:18:06.836 --> 00:18:14.309
00:18:14.309 --> 00:18:18.553
00:18:18.553 --> 00:18:30.041
00:18:30.041 --> 00:18:33.990
00:18:33.990 --> 00:18:40.030
00:18:40.030 --> 00:18:45.048
00:18:45.048 --> 00:18:49.534
00:18:50.055 --> 00:19:00.451
00:19:00.451 --> 00:19:06.232
00:19:06.865 --> 00:19:07.366
00:19:07.366 --> 00:19:11.255
00:19:11.255 --> 00:19:18.996
00:19:18.996 --> 00:19:22.367
00:19:22.367 --> 00:19:28.788
00:19:28.788 --> 00:19:30.109
00:19:30.109 --> 00:19:33.896
00:19:34.217 --> 00:19:36.707
00:19:36.707 --> 00:19:41.218
00:19:41.218 --> 00:19:43.007
00:19:43.007 --> 00:19:43.788
00:19:43.788 --> 00:19:46.852
00:19:46.852 --> 00:19:50.978
00:19:51.398 --> 00:19:58.596
00:19:58.596 --> 00:20:06.458
00:20:06.458 --> 00:20:09.373