Feb. 14, 2026

Nancy Guthrie Breakdown: When the Sheriff Became the Story

Thirteen days into a missing persons case that has captivated national media, the story isn't the search anymore—it's the searchers. Pima County Sheriff Chris Nanos has turned a crisis investigation into a reputational implosion, and former ABC News correspondent Clayton Sandell walks me through exactly how it happened. Guest: Clayton Sandell covered high-profile missing persons and mass casualty events for ABC News, including the Aurora theater shooting and numerous FBI-led investigations. H...

Guest: Clayton Sandell covered high-profile missing persons and mass casualty events for ABC News, including the Aurora theater shooting and numerous FBI-led investigations. He knows what institutional competence looks like during a crisis—and what we're watching in Arizona isn't it.

In this episode:

The press conference mistake that telegraphed weakness to every reporter in the room
Why showing up at a basketball game wasn't a harmless decompression—it was a strategic failure that signaled misplaced priorities
How the sheriff's defensive one-on-one interviews with outlets like People Magazine actively undermined the investigation's credibility
The moment the FBI stopped coordinating and started competing with local law enforcement over evidence
Why armchair internet detectives are producing better investigative questions than official press releases

What you'll understand after listening: How to spot when crisis response shifts from serving the mission to protecting the messenger. Why defensive quotes ("I had to decompress") reveal someone who's lost control of their narrative. The difference between information vacuums that build suspense versus those that breed conspiracy theories and erode institutional trust.

This isn't celebrity gossip. It's a case study in how law enforcement creates secondary crises by prioritizing self-protection over transparency.

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00:00 - Setting A Clinical Media Lens

01:45 - Dissecting The Pima Press Conference

03:50 - Thin Suspect Details And Reward Hike

05:40 - Sheriff’s Optics And Defensive Quote

08:10 - Confidence, Demeanor, And Press Handling

11:40 - One-On-Ones, People Magazine, And Leaks

15:05 - FBI vs Pima: Evidence And Turf Tensions

18:35 - Media Turn And Resource Reallocation

21:25 - Viral Video, Internet Sleuths, And Missteps

25:00 - TMZ, Rewards, And Tip Dynamics

27:50 - Motives, Money, And Crime Scenarios

31:10 - Parallel With Epstein Files And Conspiracies

34:10 - Content Ecosystem: News, Indies, Armchairs

36:50 - Savannah Guthrie’s Career Path Ahead

41:10 - Ring Footage, Privacy, And Public Trust

44:00 - Fading Coverage And Hopes For A Break

WEBVTT

00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:07.440
Clayton, hello.

00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:09.359
Welcome back to the podcast.

00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:11.039
Molly, great to be back.

00:00:11.279 --> 00:00:15.039
Now, I want to be very clear again from my position and point of view.

00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:25.359
Every single time I post something, particularly about a case like this, that has a lot of heartbreak and just a lot of anguish in it and a lot of emotion around.

00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:37.200
Sometimes it's hard to come in clinically, but as you know in your work, you need to, when you come in as a reporter or a producer, a journalist, you have to look things at things analytically.

00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:40.719
So that's the approach that I want to take with this.

00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:48.560
And we're going to look at it from the media aspect, the messaging aspect, and the reputation aspect.

00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:58.320
We're going to primarily we're going to start off talking about the Nancy Guthrie case, but also the Epstein files because they are dominating the news cycle right now.

00:00:58.479 --> 00:01:01.600
So, Clayton, you're on the West Coast, you're in the Denver media market.

00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:05.200
Where do you see this Nancy Guthrie story sitting right now?

00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:08.159
Uh yeah, and first I'd I'd like to kind of echo that.

00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:14.959
We we kind of we realize that there is a family at the center of this who are going through the worst thing you could possibly imagine.

00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:21.439
I would never wish this on my worst enemies, not only going through it, but also going through it in this extraordinarily public way.

00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:23.200
Uh, I want to get that that out of the way.

00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:33.120
But yeah, I think from a clinical PR perspective, I think this was a pivotal week in this story, both on the messaging that was coming from law enforcement.

00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:35.359
Let's go back just for a week.

00:01:35.519 --> 00:01:43.280
So, how you and I first connected on this is we were talking, we were chatting about the press conference, which I could have talked about for hours.

00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:48.959
But the press conference from Pima County, I don't know if you'd really call it a joint press conference.

00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:55.040
The FBI was there, the special agent in charge was there, but it was really a Pima County press conference.

00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:55.599
It was.

00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:57.519
You and I did a breakdown on that.

00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:00.719
Anyone interested in that conversation, you could find it on Substack.

00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:01.920
You could also find it on YouTube.

00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:03.519
We have the live chat there.

00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:10.639
But you and I both agree that from a logistic point of view, it was an organized press conference.

00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:19.439
But from an information dissemination and putting that information out there and even the thinking of it, pretty disorganized, agree.

00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:21.360
Yeah, pretty disorganized.

00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:25.520
And I think that may be one of the reasons why we haven't seen a press conference since then.

00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:27.840
And that has now, in some cases, become the story.

00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:33.280
There have been news outlets uh writing stories about how there haven't been any press conferences, which you never really want.

00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:35.280
So much has happened in the last week.

00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:38.400
Let's just do a reset right now where we are quickly with the case.

00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:41.039
13th day, almost two weeks into it.

00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:52.479
There has been an arrest and charge in the person sending a fake ransom note to Derek Kalella, which why somebody would do that and why they didn't think that they wouldn't be caught for that.

00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:52.719
Yeah.

00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:56.080
Also, the FBI has provided new details with the suspect.

00:02:56.319 --> 00:03:02.560
And when you read this, it's there's a lot of armchair detectives out there in internet people who could have said the same.

00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:04.400
We could have written this press release.

00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:13.199
It's a male, 5'9 to 5'10, average build, wearing black with a 25-liter Ozark Trail hiker pack backpack.

00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:15.840
Now that's officially from a release from the FBI.

00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:16.240
Yeah.

00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:18.800
Yeah, everyone on the internet already knew it.

00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:22.319
Congratulations, you've just narrowed the suspect down to like 5 million people.

00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:23.840
Yeah, exactly.

00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:25.120
And there's not much there.

00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:28.479
Also, a point that you and I did talk about from the press conference.

00:03:28.639 --> 00:03:31.439
Originally there was a$50,000 reward.

00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:34.240
Now it's up to$100,000.

00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:38.639
And the FBI has said they fielded more than 13,000 tips.

00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:44.639
And here's where we have somewhat the fork in the road between the two.

00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:46.639
And this is what I want to talk to you about.

00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:51.120
We have Pima County appearing to run the investigation right there.

00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:57.439
They bring in the special agent in that press conference last week in almost that they were a guest at the press conference.

00:03:57.759 --> 00:03:59.919
Then we have a couple days, and then you brought it up.

00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:03.840
I did a post about this where we saw uh Sheriff Chris Nanios.

00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:07.280
He showed up at a U of A basketball game.

00:04:07.439 --> 00:04:10.719
It was first released by Fox News Digital.

00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:11.280
Yeah.

00:04:11.439 --> 00:04:16.000
And I immediately had to jump in on it because that's in the reputation game.

00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:18.560
That is horrible, horrible optics.

00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:23.199
Now, certainly there are comments on there that said he has every right to be at a game.

00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:26.399
But Clayton, when you saw that, what did you think?

00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:36.639
Yeah, I I definitely thought it was bad optics, especially given the lack of progress in the case and the lack of information and the disorganized way that that press conference went down.

00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:38.000
I will tell you the quote.

00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:39.439
I will tell you the quote.

00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:46.399
Responding to criticism, Nanios told the Green Valley News that no one can work around the clock.

00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:49.680
Quote, even though I want to, I can't.

00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:52.959
And to sit back and say, well, it's a bad image.

00:04:53.120 --> 00:05:02.160
I guess I'm going to have to live with that image because I got to a point where I needed to decompress a little bit and back away from my team a little bit.

00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:04.720
So I'm not on them all the time.

00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:06.879
Clayton, what do you think of that quote?

00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:12.160
Yeah, it's uh it's um it's very defensive.

00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:17.920
And not only is he getting it from the public, he's also getting it from within his own department.

00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:22.399
There was uh an article about uh this sergeant uh Aaron Cross, I think is his name.

00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:26.959
He's the the head of the sheriff's deputy union, and he went off on the sheriff.

00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:28.879
So the sheriff is getting it from all sides.

00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:34.879
Cross talked about uh the mistakes in in releasing Nancy Guthrie's home too early.

00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:41.199
He blamed him uh for everything from from reassigning pilots, which supposedly delayed the air search.

00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:44.079
And he did go after him uh about the basketball game, too.

00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:47.600
So uh a lot of distractions that the sheriff is having to deal with.

00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:56.959
And I think that just primed the situation for Tuesday for really you saw a big shift in the FBI really taking over kind of the messaging.

00:05:57.120 --> 00:06:08.800
I felt a shift in in how uh how where that primary information was gonna start coming from, and a lot of cash patel sort of taking credit for for a lot of that and and talking about the resources.

00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:12.000
And so, yeah, sheriffs getting it from all sides.

00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:13.839
Really, it's self-inflicted.

00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:14.959
Can you agree?

00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:19.519
And you you and I, we almost predicted that this was gonna happen.

00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:35.600
When you, from an optic perspective and you call a presser, and you do not look confident in your delivery and containment of the information, it creates these these fissures in the reputation where people are looking at a weakness there.

00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:40.240
As you know, you've sat in a lot of press conferences from the journal side.

00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:43.360
You certainly can smell weakness.

00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:47.360
And it doesn't mean that you have to have an answer for everything.

00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:52.399
We don't know is an answer that can suffice, but how do you say that?

00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:55.600
And how firm are you in the I don't know?

00:06:55.759 --> 00:07:00.800
So just like briefly, like go back and why do you think Naniels is wobbling so much?

00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:09.519
Yeah, I think it kind of goes back to something that's as simple as your demeanor and your projected level of confidence in a press conference.

00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:15.839
It's understanding that you can't just deflect a question or not answer it or speculate, which is even worse.

00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:25.519
But to say, yeah, these are important questions, and I understand why you're asking them, and we want those answers too, and we're doing our best to find them.

00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:31.519
But when you know, allow the sheriff to just sort of stand there and just kind of speculate on every question that was coming in.

00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:36.319
Again, we talked about how that press conference probably should have been cut off 20 or 30 minutes earlier.

00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:43.759
Yes, it allows uh it allows sort of the the vacuum to be filled with a lot of just nothingness and at the end of the day.

00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:52.319
And speaking of vacuums being filled, something else I've noticed about Sheriff Nano's media relations.

00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:58.079
Now, in crisis management, I work with people at the center of a crisis.

00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:05.120
It's my job to get into the crisis, but also to get into the mind of the person at the center of it.

00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:14.639
Certainly, Sheriff Nano's is also at the center of his own reputation, reputational challenge dealing with this case.

00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:18.959
And I think it is impacting the perception of Pima County.

00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:24.639
And that's why you're also going to get you're gonna get more leaks, you're gonna get more frustration.

00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:42.399
But one of the things that I think one of the challenges that he's having is one, he is he doesn't have the PIO support, the public in for the public information officer support, which you and I both know he does because we saw the staff, or more likely, he's not listening.

00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:48.639
Because what I'm seeing is a sheriff who is spending a lot of time doing one-on-one interviews.

00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:51.840
Which, yeah, now and now he said he's not gonna do those, which is interesting.

00:08:52.000 --> 00:09:02.799
I thought I noticed they actually put that in a post or a tweet the other day that uh not only no press conferences, but but no one-on-ones, which I think is telling because he was better in one-on-one interviews.

00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:08.559
I think he was a little more direct and a little more sincere and showed a little bit more emotion when he was doing those one-on-ones.

00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:14.000
Certainly, yeah, he's more comfortable in that one-on-one environment, which many people are.

00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:16.240
And I know this from my client work.

00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:24.000
The one of the reasons why people like to do one-on-ones is they think they can control the narrative, they think they can control the reporter.

00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:25.759
It's so much easier to do one-on-one.

00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:29.440
But when it is a press conference, anything goes.

00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:54.240
Now, I don't want this to be an entire chat about dunking on shared manuals, but uh but this is a case that has captured the interest of so many people, not just because of Savannah Guthrie being a co-anchor on the Today Show and being it with NBC News, but also the length of the case without any answers mixed in with this new digital age media there.

00:09:54.320 --> 00:10:02.879
But just to bring it back to Naniels for one second, yeah, I was reading People magazine, I was reading an article about the case here.

00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:04.960
But this is entertainment media.

00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:05.360
Right.

00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:15.200
Now, Savannah Guthrie certainly falls under entertainment media, and big less crime cases fall under entertainment and culture and pop culture as well.

00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:25.279
But what was so interesting about this article to me, so they were doing a general overview, but then it said they quoted him from the February 2nd press conference, right?

00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:39.919
And then in the article by Jillian Telling, it's very telling because it says later when he spoke to people, he noted that quote, biological material found at the scene was being DNA tested.

00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:47.279
That alone says so much that Sheriff Nanios is speaking to people magazine.

00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:49.919
He should not be speaking to People magazine.

00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:53.840
It's not because people magazine is beneath them, but that isn't effective.

00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:57.679
If you are Savannah Guthrie, Clayton, what are you feeling?

00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:04.240
Yeah, it's interesting because in that press conference, the last one, too, we saw outlets like Entertainment Tonight.

00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:10.960
Uh, is there a lot of uh sustained reporting by places like the Daily Mail and and outlets like that?

00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:16.399
Yeah, I think it also I would not be thrilled that information like that was coming out in in one-on-ones.

00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:26.960
Either, again, either don't say it at all or make sure that it is disseminated in a way that feels equal and fair and as transparent as possible.

00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:27.600
Yes.

00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:36.879
And the bigger issue, I think, is why are you not looking for my mother instead of talking to People Magazine?

00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:37.600
Right.

00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:43.840
That so what is telling to me about this is that Sheriff Nanos is overwhelmed.

00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:44.879
I agree.

00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:51.759
Nobody expects Pima County to be operation ready for an international story.

00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:53.919
Right now, this is an international story.

00:11:54.159 --> 00:12:01.279
I think reporters, I think all stakeholders out there, agencies and the public, would give Pima County grace.

00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:06.799
But and you have a you have a bit of a bumbling press conference.

00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:24.639
But right after that press conference, when you start to get that pushback and people are starting to give you grief, is when you really recenter, you stop doing the one-on-one interviews, and it seems like he's been forced to stop doing the interviews as opposed to choosing to no longer do these interviews.

00:12:25.039 --> 00:12:44.960
But the tell also from his reaction to being spotted at that basketball game, and as you pointed out, Clayton, his choice to go defensive instead of saying calling it like, yeah, I know the look, I know how it seems, but I I just I had to get away for a moment.

00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:56.399
There's other ways you could have message messaged it that but the lack of reputation for Nanos does impact the greater reputation of Pima County, wouldn't you agree?

00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:58.159
Uh absolutely, I agree.

00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:03.840
Uh, and I'm sure that he is probably getting some questions from his bosses.

00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:10.240
You know, the County Board of Supervisors is probably not thrilled that the only mention of Pima County is in relation to this story.

00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:16.000
And I'm sure he's getting a lot of pressure from people in that community to solve this as quickly as possible.

00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:22.960
And I do hope that there has been some sort of change in how they are advising him.

00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:33.120
You know, it's it's hard in the middle of an intense high-pressure case like this to take a step back and say, let's talk about PR strategy and how we're going to change and do things.

00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:42.639
I think they're sort of focused elsewhere, and maybe they'll have kind of a debrief later once this is all done, and they'll talk about how all this was done.

00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:45.039
You know, Nanios is a cop's cop.

00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.360
He's been a cop since he was 20 years old.

00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:48.799
He knows law enforcement.

00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:54.639
He's done every job in law enforcement from homicide to sex crimes to all everything in between.

00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:56.159
And so Gabby Giffords.

00:13:56.320 --> 00:13:56.559
He's good.

00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:00.879
Yeah, Gabby Giffords was uh involved in that case as well.

00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:08.240
But uh, you know, but besides that case, uh and and this one, I don't think he's had a lot of of high profile cases to kind of deal with.

00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:10.320
And so I give him a little bit of grace there.

00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:25.919
But again, a lot of these things are just sort of self-inflicted, unforced errors in terms of how you project confidence in the investigation and how you present information in a way that's just not meandering and and disorganized.

00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:32.720
I mean, it there's there is the case in the investigation, but there's also a reputation crisis for Pima County.

00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:33.519
There just is now.

00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:34.240
Oh, seriously.

00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:35.759
They're dealing with that.

00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:43.200
And another challenge that you're dealing with here is this perception of a split between the FBI and Pima County.

00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:52.720
So there are so many things that are almost infiltrating the investigation and the reputation of the investigation of this case.

00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:55.200
So let's talk about this for a moment.

00:14:55.360 --> 00:15:20.000
I don't know how deep you went on this, but yeah, looking at a number of stories out there, Reuters, AZ Central, Fox, and others, essentially the quote is Sheriff blocks FBI access to evidence over gloves and DNA and criticism that it quotes risks further slowing a case that grows more urgent by the minute.

00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:27.840
Yeah, no one else for his he is in instead of there being one unifying message, we now have two.

00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:30.879
He has to read pot what was said there.

00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:32.720
So what's in all this?

00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:35.200
That was uh and that uh broke last night.

00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:48.080
That was a Reuters article by Jana Winter, who is an outstanding reporter with a long history of great sources and and uh stories that she's broken over the years, uh including uh about the Aurora Theater shooting many years ago here in Colorado.

00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:50.080
But so you've worked with her.

00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:50.879
Yeah, yeah.

00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:51.679
I know her work.

00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:54.399
I've worked alongside her, been in press conferences with her.

00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:59.120
So um that was a really interesting kind of well then, Clank, you know her.

00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:00.000
What do you take?

00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:02.000
What's the veracity of the article?

00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:03.200
I mean, is there something there?

00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:05.840
Oh, I think it's yeah, I think it's I think there's something there.

00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:32.240
I think uh, you know, basically the gist of the story was that the sheriff is sending evidence to be tested to a lab in Florida, which maybe they've used before, rather than handing it over to the FBI and letting them fly it to the lab in Quantico, uh, where the FBI probably rightly argues that they have better expertise, better technology, more uh more experience really examining uh evidence in tough cases like this.

00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:48.799
And so, yeah, that was definitely, you know, that feels like I have no idea, but that feels like somebody from the FBI or the federal government sort of wanting to air this out a little bit, and maybe went to Janet to um uh to have her report this story out a little bit.

00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:55.600
But it, you know, comes off of a week where we did see the FBI taking the lead on all the messaging, putting the videos out.

00:16:55.759 --> 00:17:03.120
You didn't see the sheriff talking about it, but you did see Cash Patel go on Sean Hannity and talk about it for an extended period of time.

00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:05.039
So, yeah, I think two things have happened.

00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:12.319
I think there is uh a split, and you always have you know a little bit of tension between feds and locals.

00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:21.359
They all talk nice and they talk about cooperation, but there is a little bit of turf uh battle that goes on between law enforcement, it just happens.

00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:25.759
And so I think now you're seeing this kind of break out into the light a little bit.

00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:36.880
And again, at the end of the day, if I'm the Guthrie family watching this, doesn't give me confidence to see that the two law enforcement agencies who are supposed to be finding my mother or find out what happened to her.

00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:51.279
And five years ago, I don't think this would be a question that we would ask, but it could be some people look at the Justice Department or they look at the FBI as a government agency, and some people look at it as Cash Patel's agency.

00:17:51.519 --> 00:18:05.119
I know after uh the shooting of Charlie Kirk, part of the narrative there was the special agent in charge was let go and someone who had a lot of experience that there was somewhat of a gutting within the FBI.

00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:13.920
So is it a question that Pima County, or even the family, for all we know, is not trusting this particular FBI?

00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:19.359
Or could it be the FBI not trusting Pima County?

00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:20.400
Could be both.

00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:22.960
Yeah, it's that's a that's a hard one to say.

00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:34.240
It's but I I have now seen uh there was some reporting, I think it was sourced as a as a source close to Savannah Guthrie and her family last night on the evening news programs.

00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:43.279
There was starting to be some chatter about the Guthrie family apparently feeling like unhappy that the investigation seems stalled.

00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:51.039
And that is that is starting to uh become a thread that I think you're gonna see pop up probably even more in the coming days.

00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:58.799
And part of the split is you're saying now we have like sources, unnamed sources, but sources close to the family.

00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:02.960
We have leaks now going to Reuters, going to other places.

00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:17.119
There is an there's now this case and Pima County in particular, the danger where internal coordination becomes an issue because everybody heard about one black glove, so OJ esque.

00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:25.440
And then Pima County and and Sheriff Nanio saying that there were two gloves, and now there's there's no daylight almost between the agencies.

00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:29.759
We don't know what they're hiding from each other, what they're sharing with each other.

00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:43.440
When you have a like a Reuters type story where you have sources, you know, going on the record, whether or not background or on the record, how do you think that changes the coverage and the narrative right now?

00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:46.160
So we're Friday, we're heading into the weekend.

00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:49.519
So Saturday, traditionally slow news day, but it pops online.

00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:52.160
And then Sunday we have a lot of big headlines.

00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:58.079
Do you think there's going to be like another kind of sub-narrative here just about the split?

00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:12.640
I think that yes, you will start to see that only because with a lack of information on the primary issue here, finding Nancy Guthrie, then yeah, then reporters are gonna start to look for other threads to pursue.

00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:18.000
And and I I talked about, I mentioned earlier it was a turning point uh in terms of the messaging this week.

00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:22.319
I also think it's gonna be a bit of a turning point for the media, too.

00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:24.079
I think that explain.

00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:44.640
I think that this to me feels like the point in the story where if there are no developments, I think what you're gonna start to see, and I'm sure these conversations are probably happening right now in in newsrooms and will happen over the weekend, is how long do we continue devoting so many resources on the ground?

00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:45.759
Yes, this story.

00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:52.799
I don't think uh networks will stop covering it, but none of the networks have bureaus in Arizona.

00:20:52.880 --> 00:21:02.240
And it is expensive to have correspondents, producers, camera crews that you're hiring, satellite trucks, the the whole bit, hotel rooms, rental cars, it gets expensive.

00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:14.880
And so what I think it my hunch is that by next week, if there are no developments or changes in this story, you're gonna start to see the story being covered from the bigger bureaus like Los Angeles, like New York.

00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:20.000
They'll still cover it, but I don't think the nationals are gonna be on the ground as long.

00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:25.599
So I think it, and and that's just a function of how long can this go on with no real news.

00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:32.559
And so they will continue to cover it because it is an important story, but I think they may start to dial back a little bit, at least the nationals.

00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:43.440
Yeah, and there is, and there is a lot of chatter online to where the missing white woman syndrome, like media accountability, we're all focused on just this one person.

00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:48.640
The Savannah Guthrie factor certainly is significant there as well.

00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:52.960
But yeah, here we are now coming up on the two week mark.

00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:57.519
When do you think it falls below the fold, so to speak?

00:21:57.759 --> 00:21:58.799
I would say another week.

00:21:58.880 --> 00:21:59.519
If if it doesn't

00:22:00.240 --> 00:23:20.240
week yeah i would give it another week if there's really no uh no developments then i would guess by another week it starts to go below the fold yeah yeah because what they need are developments and i find it interesting like looking at how they are messaging the fbi for instance now the fbi it is really stepping up as we mentioned they're stepping up their comms definitely and i just pulled a post from twitter from fbi phoenix so it's out out of the phoenix office there so it says the FBI is increasing its award to$100,000 new identifying details and we had talked about this but in media outlets should direct tips they receive to the FBI additionally we do not comment on tips and information we receive regarding ongoing investigations and then they included photos of the backpack and the video that that video now like when we talk about if there hasn't been no new news that video when that was released it was so i the first thing I said was and as you and I were chatting about this before I've been in Arizona all week yeah this has been a national and local news story for me I've been following as soon as we landed at the airport the very first billboard we saw was for Nancy Guthrie.

00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:36.559
That was the very first thing and the locals there are certainly doing extensive coverage but it really I think peaked with that video footage which was absolutely eerie but Clayton don't you think it's I don't know I went to bed that night thinking this person will be caught the next day.

00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:43.200
Yeah oh for sure yeah and then with the information about the person of interest or not the subject we can talk about that.

00:23:43.279 --> 00:24:49.920
That was amazing yes I thought when that video came out it it reminded me of an old case I covered here that went on for months where there was a person with a mask and a terrible crime and I that was uh sort of key to the case as well but yeah it was um it was remarkable uh to see that in such detail because we had no idea what happened and then to see this I mean it was a scary menacing fully masked gloved person walk up onto that porch really got people talking again and I think that uh I thought there was going to be a break and I'm sure uh every reporter covering this case day by day thought there was gonna be a break and so I think that sort of fueled the over enthusiasm in the subject that the sheriff uh tweeted about later that evening and I think that was another misstep by the sheriff frankly because in investigations like this they are chasing down lots of leads and they are talking to a lot of people and are you referring to the DoorDash driver?

00:24:50.079 --> 00:25:40.799
Yeah to Carlos to I saw it on the local news because of course now it's all NBC all day because of the Olympics and I was in the middle of of work travel but so they release the footage and then also the there's the subconversation on online the internet that's going back to is it a bandmate of the brother in law so Savannah's brother-in-law remember how we heard Ashley Banfield right saying that someone look within the local law enforcement was saying we're looking at the the brother but then you and I both agreed that there's nothing wrong with someone saying that to an Ashley Banfield that of course because they have to look at everyone right but did you happen to see that online like you know about who they thought initially was behind the mask I didn't see the thing about the band member that's interesting.

00:25:41.359 --> 00:26:28.799
Oh yeah as soon as it was announced we were out sitting it was late night and then I I saw on the phone I said to Greg one oh and I watch I'm waiting for media outlets who picks this up and media outlet news media outlet is going to pick up that because there it's not verified at all but all the digital news clickbait sites oh did oh yeah you had uh I saw people uh posting about every little detail trying to measure the shoe the length of the shoe based on the you know the tile of what was probably 12 inch tiles you know like how many inches does it take up that the shoe when he walks across those tiles what kind of backpack is it apparently you can only buy it at Walmart.

00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:50.160
What sort of gloves they are all of these things and that's uh that is uh an interesting part of this whole information vacuum from officials is that it is just going to get filled by all of these armchair detectives and theories and conspiracy theories and you sort of just additionally lose the narrative when those things take over.

00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:54.480
Yeah they lose the narrative but who picks up the narrative is the internet.

00:26:55.440 --> 00:27:12.400
And I hear it all the time when I work with clients and so much of it is justified to when someone's under attack it's a viral crisis they get so frustrated by the keyboard warriors and and their reputation being in the hands of the internet.

00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:16.640
I understand it I absolutely empathize a lot of it's unfair I agree.

00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:37.680
Yeah a lot of it is unfair but you know what a lot of it is fair too and I know it's so easy in messaging that people like to dismiss people online don't they have better things to do but we also this is a very interesting case I think because a lot of the information online is very warranted.

00:27:37.839 --> 00:28:18.720
I was looking at replies with a thread from Aaron Burnett so she's on CNM and her producer posts on there was under her name hey what questions do you want us to ask oh interesting yeah on our feature tonight and and so I thought okay this is interesting this is you know Aaron asking the internet and this happened to be on threads the questions so they all fell in three different pockets one pocket was certainly what why are you even covering this case so long when there's so many other cases to cover the EC case would definitely be one of them and other people were at were more critical of the investigation but so many of the questions people were asking were so good.

00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:26.480
Someone would say okay they use their left hand in this are you checking see if they're left handed or if they do that some of them are not sky in the pie.

00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:29.599
Some of them do seem very warranted questions.

00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:49.200
I agree I think uh one of my favorite ones was somebody online was saying here's what you should do take Nancy's phone put it in a Ziploc bag attach it to a drone and fly it in a spiral pattern around the the area and see if it starts to pick up or connects to her pacemaker.

00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:52.480
And it's like I I read that at first and I was like that's crazy.

00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:56.640
And then I thought about it I was like well you know it's not that's good things on the same thing.

00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:57.839
I think people say the same thing.

00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:02.000
Yeah it's I it's actually a pretty creative and and thought out idea.

00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:35.359
So um so yeah there's there probably are people who and even the Guthrie family I think has said uh has talked about uh you know that the tip could come from anywhere so you never know um what should be followed and what was not but yeah it's been interesting for them to have to deal with uh sort of these parallel internet investigations and speaking of tips coming from everywhere yeah which often happens in these cases who seems to have direct contact with somebody who's claiming to have direct contact with the kidnapper is TMZ.

00:29:36.079 --> 00:30:01.680
Yeah and TMZ now I'll admit so full disclosure here I should say in this disclaimer I've worked with them I've participated in their programs I've done lives true with Harvey Levin before how do journalists perceive perceive TMZ well um how do they perceive it you know they break a lot of news and I think that a lot of news organizations end up following what TMZ breaks.

00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:05.440
I think where the reservation comes in is is how did they get that information?

00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:07.599
How did they was somebody paid off?

00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:18.319
Was somebody you know what were the methods of getting that information so uh it's less about the scoops and the information which most of the time turns out to be correct it's more the methods.

00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:49.519
So I think that's where sort of traditional news media has a bit of a pause when it goes you mean ethics of it yeah they question the ethics which is understandable but when it comes to breaking news stories uh and when it comes to the public and when they want news they're not looking so much as the ethics information is information and I know having worked with TMZ in the past on stories they wanted me to do an interview on a story for instance and then they would tell me what the questions are were going to be and then they give me a follow-up call.

00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:56.079
Okay so this is what we heard now we have this this and this and I say how did you get seven minutes since I've spoken to you.

00:30:56.319 --> 00:31:10.880
So they do have a network and they are wired in everywhere now and yeah and I have good friends that work at TMZ who are come from the traditional journalism world so I know that they know what they're doing.

00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:31.039
They know what they're doing and they do get to operate under different journalistic standards because the with the sourcing before you put any story on the air if you're doing it or you're working with the correspondence producer how many sources do you feel that you need to get before something goes on the air what is there an SOP at ABC for that?

00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:39.039
Uh yeah I mean it is the standard two sources and preferably not sources that are working side by side in the same office and have the same information.

00:31:39.200 --> 00:32:01.759
There were instances where you could use unnamed sources but there was a procedure you had to talk to uh the standards and practices folks you had to talk to an ABC lawyer and so there was discussion and you had to if they asked you had to provide who your source was and so there was a procedure for sort of making sure that you were solid journalistically and legally.

00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:36.480
Now with these cases as they happen with every new case out there and I think here's another reason for the people who say why are we focusing so much time on Nancy Guthrie like when there's so many other people why I also think it's a story that has legs it's because of the coverage aspect and the public's wanting the information but also all these other stories providing it all these other places providing it the if you think if you look at Pima County if you look at the FBI a lot of the info isn't coming from them.

00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:48.720
A lot of the info is being dropped in the lab and when a Harvey Levin gets online and shares well we're in direct contact we can verify but this is what they're telling us.

00:32:48.880 --> 00:33:03.680
Yeah it will make an impact I don't know if you agree with me on this but if a Harvey Levin goes on the air and says we've been in contact it triggers other things happening from local and federal law enforcement point of view wouldn't you agree?

00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:16.559
Oh I I I agree because it is uh you know they have to chase down every lead and you know especially given the fact that there is this huge reward$100,000 is now on the table they have to chase it down.

00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:41.599
They have to take it seriously and I know uh reading some of the uh the latest uh TMZ article you know they even mentioned that we're not giving you every detail in this note that we got or in this email that we got I guess it was and so they seem to be at least TMZ I think recognizes its place in this story and seems to be at least talking to law enforcement or sharing this with them to kind of make sure that that they're not releasing too much.

00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:44.960
So they are practicing some restraint in that regard.

00:33:45.039 --> 00:34:21.360
But yeah sure it changes the dynamic it absolutely changes the dynamic whether or not uh you believe that this is actually a a kidnap for ransom case which I think has kind of been developed waning as a Clayton I'm gonna ask it what do you think now we're almost two weeks into this what do you think man I you know I would just completely be speculating but yeah I I I I think maybe somebody not a I feel like in the in the the history of humanity the biggest motivating factor is in in people doing bad things to each other is money.

00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:39.440
So I think that this was probably a targeted crime in the sense that they saw an elderly woman living in a nice house and someone probably thought that they could profit from it rob the place get money what whatever it is I don't I still don't think it was a a kidnapping for ransom case.

00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:53.679
It just doesn't feel that way again the the length of time that it took for any any uh demands to come in uh the fact that if you're going to kidnap someone for ransom you don't injure them potentially severely it's just not something you do.

00:34:53.920 --> 00:35:05.039
So yeah I think it was a more or less random crime in the sense that they could have picked any 84 year old living in a nice house in that part of the town.

00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:07.039
And you think it just happened to be that one.

00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:08.880
And it just happened to be that one.

00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:43.920
Yeah I mean again I I could be wrong and I want to say that I've seen cases in the past where in fairness to the investigators there have been cases where it seems like nothing is happening but there may be a lot happening behind the scenes and hopefully that's the case in this case hopefully we are hours away or the next big break away from solving this case that we just don't know about but it just doesn't feel that way does it I just I you took the words out of my mouth I was gonna say but it doesn't feel that way yeah nothing about this the a word that I do not associate with this case is confidence.

00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:50.559
Yeah and I think you and I both agree it's unusual it's strange and there could be a number of red herrings there.

00:35:50.719 --> 00:36:18.639
Like you said it could be just a random crime that just happened to be the mother of someone who's you know on network news um or it could be close but I'm also with you too whether it's a crime I mean I'm no detective yeah me neither I'm no true crime buff even kind of sort of I'm no like you I'm always looking in my work I'm looking for self-interest why why does someone do something and usually it's money.

00:36:18.880 --> 00:37:10.480
So who wants money and why and how do they get it I will say I'm very surprised that someone has not been caught yet that's between 5'9 5'10 wearing a Walmart backpack how have we not figured that out but here's another theory that you and I don't necessarily believe but a lot of people do out there the Epstein tie-in the Epstein story this is why it's so crazy and also why I wanted to bring you in on this it's just people who have media backgrounds on this the fact that these two stories are parallel stories at the same time are snapshot in time the two trending stories it's the Guthrie case and the Epstein files and you would never think the two would intersect but yet here we are there's different points of intersection through it.

00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:16.639
Some people pointing out that Savannah Guthrie was one of the first to interview the victims in Virginia.

00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:30.559
Also people questioning because we know that the White House so often tends to there are patterns to their crisis response when things go bad they force something good.

00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:58.320
I posted something the other day I don't know if you watched any of the Pam Bonde Pam Bondi Attorney General testimony I saw some highlights yeah some highlights which if you watch Fox News that's all you would see were highlights they only showed a couple of highlights social media lit up with all of the clips from Pam Bondi but that was like a disaster day for them.

00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:31.440
And then sure enough you know now next day I mean I wait for it they're pulling out of Minneapolis and the big announcement was because it was a success even though that two American citizens died but what do you think of anything about people talking about that narrative of the Epstein files and Nancy Guthrie yeah I I I don't know I think it's I think it's a convenient connection to make I I've never been a big believer in conspiracies and sort of that idea that if it if it sounds like a horse and walks like a horse it's probably a horse.

00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:48.880
So I but again in the vacuum of information and the widespread interest in both cases by people who are have the time to look into this stuff and and connect those dots that maybe there's not a lot of evidence for connecting people are going to do it.

00:38:48.960 --> 00:39:05.760
And it may affect it may affect the storyline it may affect how things are investigated but it I just don't I don't personally and again personal opinion I don't I don't buy the connection yeah so is the connection there or not I wouldn't give the White House that much credit honestly to plan it like that.

00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:42.719
I I I really I really don't but from the media analyst hat if I put it on right now these two parallel stories happening at the same time what will happen though is the is an institution or an organization will push stories they'll hide them under certain times like coming up in the afternoon it's a Friday like right now with the Guthrie story and the Epstein files if anyone wanted to do a news dump Friday February 13th in the afternoon is the day to do that news dump I mean that is for sure.

00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:48.320
Oh for sure I didn't even think about that but yes that would be brilliant to do it you know in just a couple hours from now I agree.

00:39:48.719 --> 00:40:12.639
Well and one one celebrity who has benefited from this news cycle I would say is Timothy Busfield who you know we were talking it went live last time when you and I were speaking right right as we were going last the notification I got the notification from the New York Times about the indictment normally that might be he's not like a big A-list celebrity but still anyone in Hollywood being indicted would be a huge story.

00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:41.199
He's an example of a celebrity truly falling through the cracks in terms of of information wise I agree and I'm a good example of that because other than that notification last week I don't think I've read uh a story about Timothy Busfield there hasn't been hardly any stories at all in a week since so that's a great example yeah but right now these parallel stories what I find interesting is the public I believe and I'm not going to judge the public for this but the public has an appetite for both of these stories.

00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:51.840
Yeah yep and the Nancy Guthrie story and the Epstein Files story where they do intersect is from a content point of view.

00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:52.320
Right.

00:40:52.480 --> 00:41:30.000
Yeah there's there we have we have video we have stills we have imagery we have PDFs we have people who can actively participate it's not just a day of reading a newspaper or reading the newspaper magazine people can download people can upload to AI people can put take the photo of the guy and take the mask off you know just as what we saw in Minneapolis you know where they take the mask off and but people have especially people with time on their hands they could do stuff with this information that's why these stories I believe have more legs than traditionally what do you think?

00:41:30.239 --> 00:42:42.639
I think what happens is you have this like three-tiered level of information coming out about both Nancy Guthrie but also the Epstein files where you have traditional news media that is being really cautious and for for good reason they don't want to be sued by the president just look at ABC or the Wall Street Journal or any number of organizations that the president has gone after you have um you know sort of this this second tier of of independent journalists that have been working the case that that don't have to answer to shareholders and uh they are they're doing a lot of a lot of good work and then you have sort of the the armchair folks who have no no regard for any of the sort of journalistic standards and practices that are out there to keep journalists from getting sued for defamation and slander and all these things they just have interest and so but the problem is from the public's perspective the public is not making that distinction like you and I are and like professionals in the business are right it's just it's just the media and the information is flowing in on their phones to TikTok and to Twitter and Instagram and all of these places.

00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:58.000
And so it creates a real it's really tough to get and I think that the biggest bummer really for mainstream news organizations is that they're just they're they're they're outpaced and outmatched when it comes to advancing different threads of the story.

00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:14.320
Let me ask you so you worked at ABC you're at and let's say you're you're an executive NBC what happens to Savannah Guthrie whether even Savannah what do you think happens next for Savannah Guthrie?

00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:51.360
Oh I th I think you tell her that you give her as much time as she needs um do you think she comes back to the Today show yeah I do I I think ultimately I mean it'll be um maybe not maybe six months maybe a year from now I think she will come back I I but I I don't know if it's a real that's a really tricky personal decision for her um because it is uh as as someone said this is going to be the thing that is associated with her for the rest of her professional and personal life.

00:43:51.599 --> 00:44:06.079
And so will you be able to look past that I think viewers yeah I think viewers would be able to I think that um you know eventually again it's sort of this this parasocial relationship that we we build up with morning news anchors.

00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:26.480
We it we have our favorites and we have you know we we root for them we want them to we we feel for what they're going through and so I think that um I don't think viewers would like reject her in any way I think they would no it's I I I agree I I don't think so in I think it's more her yeah I think it's more what she feels comfortable doing.

00:44:26.559 --> 00:44:30.719
But I I could see I could foresee a a scenario where she does come back but I honestly don't know.

00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:54.639
I mean I this is we certainly don't know if she's gonna come back horrible thing and uh yeah but since we work in this business yeah uh we think about it and certainly talk about it and this was a conversation that I was certainly having with uh my TV anchor journalists we were talking about there's two ways to look at it too you know from the Savannah Guthrie point of view I think it would be hard to come back every day I think it would be very difficult to do.

00:44:55.360 --> 00:45:01.599
Um and there's no way NBC is going to push her out there's no way they're gonna do that.

00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:13.760
No they'll give her lots of time lots of lots of grace and lots of time however NBC network news news viewership is struggling.

00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:18.159
It's not like it this we are well past the Katie and Matt days.

00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:39.840
Yeah we don't have those days anymore a lot of young people don't even know who morning acres are on television they couldn't tell you even who nightly newsacres are anymore and I think what if you you couldn't even begin to put yourselves in the shoes of a Savannah Guthrie but I personally think it would be hard to get up every day at 3 a.m and go to work and do that.

00:45:40.079 --> 00:46:13.840
I see her staying at NBC definitely but does maybe NBC put her in more of a special correspondent special projects kind of want her work at her own pace yeah maybe I could I could see that because the public will like her and no one will reject her however it has to be said it must have been said somewhere at 30 Rock somebody said if she comes back or when she comes back is that the first thing that people are going to see because this story is such right a deep story.

00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:36.159
Right is that what they're gonna see every morning and I think obviously it depends on what happens in this case if it just becomes a cold case that is one thing but if there is resolution that correct trial that drags out for a long time then that's I think that's going to affect the decision making and certainly the timing of it as well.

00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:40.239
So yeah what can I have to see yeah well I mean yeah we'll certainly have to see there.

00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:47.440
So um I really want to thank you for taking the time to speak with me and you know our I told you that the uh community loved getting your feedback.

00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:50.000
I want to look at some of the things that they're saying here.

00:46:50.400 --> 00:47:00.000
Um one person said I see a John Walsh reboot featuring Savannah depending on the outcome I don't know if I see that necessarily almost I don't think her heart could ever go there.

00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:20.719
But would people watch something like that a hundred percent yeah oh for sure yeah yeah Danielle maybe you can give her a once a week news show I don't know if the appetite is there enough for that but I think people will still want to see that she's taken care of and well right maybe give her something more weekly or serial.

00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:26.880
Yeah I mean one of the things that you're seeing is is today's show ratings for better or worse are up during this whole thing.

00:47:27.760 --> 00:47:38.719
Oh my gosh with the Olympics um one person said I think that depends on whether on the outcome of the situation whether Nancy is found or not certainly agree yeah I agree with that.

00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:55.679
Yeah and and you know looking at the commentary here in the chat I always give the public like I'm so used to dealing with clients who hate chiming in from the internet like whenever the internet chimes in and I love giving the internet the benefit of the doubt because there's a lot of smart people on there too.

00:47:55.840 --> 00:47:57.599
You got to get through all the trolls.

00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:19.280
But here's one comment I want to hear from the media who were physically outside Nancy's house last weekend who were asked to move for an hour or two asked to move down the street and a few of them saw FBI on the roof via drones but wouldn't it be time for someone to take the video with a NES camera three days later after the footage was released before we go that's a really good point Chelsea thank you.

00:48:19.679 --> 00:49:29.920
You know how this creeps into other areas of reputation the NES camera how we couldn't get footage and all of a sudden we have footage I don't know how many people with NES cameras or ring cameras oh and then the parallel story at the Super Bowl an ad comes out from ring saying turn on your ring because we're gonna find and then the ice narrative of well do we open the door to people with masks on and we there's just so much going on Clayton in the story the intersection of it all there is and I you know I I have a ring we have a ring camera and we are not we I don't subscribe to the service it's just sort of there uh and and it that whole issue of of privacy like you think that video just goes away and and it opens up a whole whole new set of questions about where our video and where our stuff is being stored and for how long and and uh you know I'm I'm I have to say I'm I'm happy that they found this because it's the only big lead they've really had in this case but yeah it sort of opens this tangential uh angle about about privacy concerns and um and that's something that we're gonna have to reckon with at some point as well.

00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:33.280
Yeah absolutely I think that's gonna be another subplot in all of this.

00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:42.480
Well Clayton I want to thank you for joining me again talking about the story I think you and I have the same feeling you know looking at it it's it is heartbreaking and the worst.

00:49:43.119 --> 00:49:54.960
You cannot even begin to imagine what it would be like to be Savannah Guthrie or her brother or her sister and what they're dealing with and just the thought of maybe never having any closure to this case ever.

00:49:55.360 --> 00:50:08.639
Yeah I mean I've covered a lot of cases where it's been years and I can think of a couple that I've covered where there's still no resolution in missing persons cases and um yeah not knowing is absolutely the worst.

00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:19.360
And uh not a week ago not knowing but then after that video came out of the it's I just so our heart certainly is with the Guthrie family.

00:50:19.599 --> 00:50:28.880
But also but we pay attention and we notice patterns and we notice coverage and this is a story I think you and I both agree.

00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:31.679
I think it's starting to fade quicker.

00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:48.880
I think we're gonna get another burst maybe on Sunday I think we're gonna get a lot of the subnarrative stories about Nest and I think we're gonna hear about the split between the FBI and Pima County we're gonna hear less from Nanos uh hopefully Nanouse won't be going to any more U of A basketball games or anything like that.

00:50:49.119 --> 00:50:59.119
But I think sadly for the Guthrie family if there isn't a conclusion it's just gonna slowly start to peter out while the Epstein story I think is going to start filling in the space.

00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:07.840
Yeah it will start to fade and that is just the reality of the news cycle so which is why I'm hoping there's a break and they get some resolution as soon as yeah certainly as well.

00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:11.679
All right Clayton thanks so much for joining me smiley

Nancy Guthrie Breakdown: When the Sheriff Became the Story

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