Feb. 24, 2026

Prince Andrew Is Arrested — And the Palace Isn't Coming to Save Him

Prince Andrew Is Arrested — And the Palace Isn't Coming to Save Him
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Prince Andrew was arrested on his 66th birthday on suspicion of misconduct in public office. He was released hours later, but this investigation is far from over. Today I'm breaking down what actually happened, what it means legally, and what a decade of crisis avoidance looks like when it finally runs out of road.

In this episode:

  • What "released under investigation" means in the U.K. system and why it's not good news for Andrew
  • The two separate police investigation tracks, including a 2010 Windsor allegation being assessed with U.S. law enforcement
  • Why King Charles's response to this crisis is the exact opposite of what Queen Elizabeth would have done
  • The Wexner, Pritzker, Botstein, and Wasserman cases — and the crisis patterns connecting all of them
  • Five transferable frameworks for recognizing these patterns in real time

What you'll understand after listening: How to identify the moment an institution stops protecting someone and starts protecting itself. Why specific denials are more dangerous than broad ones. And what the Continued Association Problem means for anyone navigating proximity to a scandal.

This isn't celebrity gossip. It's a real-time case study in what happens when avoidance becomes a crisis strategy and why it always eventually fails.

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00:00 - Breaking News: Royal Arrest

00:43 - Why This Is A PR Case Study

02:31 - The Arrest And UK Legal Stakes

04:23 - Parallel Investigations And Searches

05:31 - Palace Strategy And Succession

08:09 - Andrew’s Avoidance Spiral Explained

10:48 - Media Narrative Shift To Andrew

12:00 - Consequences Tracker: Wexner

14:06 - Continued Association: Pritzker

15:21 - Role Risk And Wasserman

17:18 - Bard College And Botstein

19:06 - Institutional Silence At Goldman

20:31 - Political Cover And Lutnick

22:02 - Five Crisis Patterns You Need

24:07 - Integrity Limits And Final CTA

WEBVTT

00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:03.680
Start with breaking news about Andrew Mountbatten Windsor.

00:00:03.839 --> 00:00:09.519
The BBC understands that he has been arrested on suspicion of misconduct in public office.

00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:14.160
That's from our correspondent who has found that information out.

00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:28.320
Just for context, we heard this morning from the Prime Minister in an interview that nobody is above the law when he was asked about Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, but he declined to say whether the former Prince should volunteer himself to the UK police.

00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:38.000
We now understand, though, that Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, the former Prince Andrew, has been arrested on suspicion of misconduct in public office.

00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:44.560
Hey there, everyone.

00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:46.159
Welcome back to the PR Breakdown.

00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:47.759
I'm your host, Molly McPherson.

00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:54.799
And if you've been following along, you know I've been tracking the Epstein Files stories for a beat.

00:00:55.039 --> 00:01:03.520
Not for the gossip, not for the tabloid angle, but because it is one of the most instructive crisis communication case studies.

00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:08.239
Many of us, any of us, will ever have a front row see-to.

00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:12.159
And it seems like every week it gets bigger.

00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:19.280
Each week, more names, more consequences, more institutional squirming.

00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:38.480
This episode was supposed to be a look at more of the names and how they are responding to the reveal in the files, but I have to take a bit of a detour because of the recent legal escalation out of the UK.

00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:48.480
And that is the royal arrest, the institutional response, and a very interesting live that I had last week.

00:01:48.640 --> 00:01:54.879
So having said this, let me tell you right now, this Friday, March 6th at 11 a.m.

00:01:55.280 --> 00:02:00.640
Eastern Time, we're going to do a special Royal Family PR breakdown live.

00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:06.159
You can head over to YouTube or Substack to follow along on the live stream.

00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:20.960
Last week, when we were going to discuss the Epstein Files, we spent some time on Andrew, and everyone in the chat not only wanted to talk about Andrew, but everyone had their own little tidbits to add about the royal family.

00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:27.840
So if you want to join us, bring your questions, bring your thoughts, bring your tidbits, because this one is going to be good.

00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.960
Now, let's talk about Andrew.

00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:32.560
The facts first.

00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:44.960
On February 19th, his 66th birthday of all days, Andrew Mountbatten Windsor was arrested by British police on suspicion of misconduct in public office.

00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:55.840
He wasn't arrested for any of the accusations that we heard about what he did with women, or particularly with the late Virginia Gouffrey.

00:02:56.080 --> 00:03:05.280
This is a case of them nabbing Andrew because of something that was found in the recent files release.

00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:13.360
The specific allegation is that while serving as a UK trade envoy, he shared confidential information with Jeffrey Epstein.

00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:19.280
And so he was arrested, held for several hours, and then released.

00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:22.400
So no charges have been filed yet, no bail conditions.

00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:27.840
He can travel freely and doesn't have to report to the police regularly.

00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:32.479
But here's what released under investigation actually means in the UK system.

00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:36.800
Based on my research, it doesn't mean that it's over.

00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:42.560
It means the Crown Prosecution Service now has to apply their evidential test.

00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:44.960
And is there enough evidence to charge?

00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:46.800
And their public interest test.

00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:49.120
Is it in the public interest to prosecute?

00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:50.400
I would think that it is.

00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:52.960
Both tests have to be met.

00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:56.319
And also there is a Crown Court backlog.

00:03:56.479 --> 00:04:06.080
So if this does go to charges and a jury trial, many of the legal analysts are saying that it could be years before it's actually heard.

00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:15.199
An important legal note: misconduct in public office in the UK carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.

00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:17.040
That's not a minor charge.

00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:20.160
That's as serious as it gets.

00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:23.759
Now, what else is being investigated?

00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:32.720
And this is where it gets more serious than most of the coverage is acknowledging that the Thames Valley police have confirmed two separate lines of investigation.

00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:37.759
First, as I said, the current misconduct charge tied to sharing information with Epstein.

00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:48.399
But second, a separate report about a woman allegedly taken to an address in Windsor in 2010 for what police describe as quote sexual purposes.

00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:52.800
That second allegation is being assessed in coordination with U.S.

00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:53.839
law enforcement.

00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:58.720
So properties linked to Andrew have been searched, including his homes in Sanchingham.

00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:03.360
Now, as you can see in the coverage, the properties linked to Andrew have been searched.

00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:05.600
It is not a fishing expedition.

00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:09.040
You do not get search warrants without probable cause.

00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:11.839
And separately, there are growing calls in the U.S.

00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:17.040
for him to testify before Congress about his dealings with Epstein.

00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:21.839
Those are a lot of facts, a lot of facts for you to absorb.

00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:23.199
Whew.

00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:24.720
A breath.

00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:27.360
We just laid out a lot of the facts.

00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:30.879
And I need to give you time to absorb all of it.

00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:34.399
Now let's move on to the royal fallout.

00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:40.879
Because I'm looking at this from many different angles, one being the institutional picture.

00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:51.360
Because I do work with a lot of clients, I always look at the organization, the institution, in this case, the royal family, because this is where crisis communication gets really interesting.

00:05:51.600 --> 00:06:05.120
Now, you know, back in October of 2025, Andrew had to give up his royal styles and honors, including the Duke of York title that came from his brother, King Charles, and the wider family.

00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:09.519
He is no longer styled as Prince Andrew in any official capacity.

00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:12.879
He is Andrew Mountbatten, Windsor.

00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:17.600
He also lost Royal Lodge, and that's his longtime Windsor residence.

00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:21.360
He's now living on a smaller property on this Andrewham estate in Norfolk.

00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:25.120
Could you imagine how far this guy has fallen?

00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:33.600
And by all accounts, his entire life, he is even up until the arrest, this is a man with an ego.

00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:39.519
But despite all of that, he does remain eight in line to the throne under the current law.

00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:46.319
And the British government is now actively considering legislation to remove him from that line of succession entirely.

00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:52.720
So here where brings another layer of the story: the Charles versus the Elizabeth contrast.

00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:58.879
So the reporting, and I was listening to a lot of BBC reporting since last Friday.

00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:06.240
They are drawing, all the reports are drawing a very clear line between how the late Queen handled Andrew and how Charles is handling him.

00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:10.399
Reports are saying that those two brothers are not that close.

00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:11.279
Hmm.

00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:13.680
Generational trauma brought down.

00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:14.560
Interesting.

00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:22.399
Elizabeth's instinct was to protect her rumored favor child, but King Charles' posture is entirely different.

00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:27.199
He is stripping him of everything and essentially kicking him out of everything.

00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:33.439
So that contrast tells you everything where the palace sees in its interests right now.

00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:37.680
Now the palace statement has been careful.

00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:42.560
The allegations are for Andrew to answer, not the royal family.

00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:44.319
That distinction is important.

00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:51.279
The institution also, since their last statement as well about Andrew, supports victims of sexual abuse.

00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:55.920
The institution wants to protect its own reputation from further damage.

00:07:56.079 --> 00:08:00.560
It's not just about King Charles, it's also the succession of William.

00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:05.120
But reading that carefully, it's not a defense.

00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:08.000
It is a very deliberate step back.

00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:11.360
The palace is not defending Andrew.

00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:14.160
They are managing their own exposure.

00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:19.040
So I think this is PR damage control, but it's also brothers.

00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:20.480
It's also family.

00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:22.800
So the crisis comms read here.

00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:32.960
Andrew's response pattern over the past several years is one of the most instructive examples I have of what I call this avoidance spiral.

00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:34.960
I wrote about it in Substack.

00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:36.960
I published it last Friday.

00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:42.639
I, when I woke up early on Friday morning, the first notification I saw was about Andrew.

00:08:42.879 --> 00:08:48.000
I was already up for at least an hour when I saw my first notification about Andrew.

00:08:48.240 --> 00:09:03.360
And my first thought was, oh, this is going to change my day because I have to write something about it, talk about it, because I've been following him and following this tactic of step one, deny and deflect.

00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:06.320
Remember that Newsnight interview in 2019.

00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:18.720
I still use it as a teaching example where he had no recollection, couldn't sweat due to a medical condition, remembered everything about bringing Beatrice, I believe, to the Pizza Express in Woking.

00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:20.159
Everything was specific.

00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:21.600
It was verifiable.

00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:28.399
But it had such ultimately damaging, you know, everything he talked about was very specific.

00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:36.639
And anything that he wanted to have verified, it was ultimately incredibly damaging because he looked guilty as he was saying it.

00:09:36.799 --> 00:09:39.840
It looked like he was deflecting, not just what he was saying.

00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:43.120
And the step two was a strategic withdrawal.

00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:45.360
He did disappear from public life.

00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:49.759
He let the institution, the royal family, absorb the heat.

00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:52.480
And he let time do the work.

00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:56.720
The next step, he relied on the institution for cover.

00:09:56.879 --> 00:10:04.480
As long as the palace was protecting him, keeping him at Royal Lodge, maintaining some normal connection, he had a buffer.

00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:07.200
And that buffer was his mom.

00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:16.399
And now that his brother, King Charles, is in charge, the next step, the institution withdraws, and there is no buffer left.

00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:18.559
And the legal system arrives.

00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:31.759
So when you build, so here's the lesson: when you build your entire crisis strategy on avoidance, no accountability, no real statement, no attempt to get ahead of the story, you are not resolving the crisis.

00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:33.200
You're only delaying it.

00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:37.840
And delayed crises don't shrink, they accumulate interest.

00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:42.000
Speaking of interest, the Harry and Megan angle.

00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:50.320
That is an observation that we have to point out before we move on here because I think it's genuinely analytically relevant.

00:10:56.639 --> 00:11:05.279
For years, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex absorbed a disproportionate share of critical royal coverage.

00:11:05.519 --> 00:11:08.799
Some of it earned, a lot of it not.

00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:12.000
But the media always needs a villain.

00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:19.919
And with Andrew quietly sidelined, the tabloids found other targets in Harry and Megan, primarily Megan.

00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:23.919
Now, an actual villain is front and center.

00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:28.320
The narrative architecture of the royal family just shifted.

00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:33.279
The smartest thing Harry and Meghan can do right now is stay completely silent.

00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:39.279
Just keep going about their day, keep going about their business, and let this all play out.

00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:45.600
We'll get into that much more in depth on March 6th on our live.

00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:48.080
So the rest of the fallout.

00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:50.879
But now we have to touch base on the rest of the fallout.

00:11:50.960 --> 00:12:02.960
Who's down, who's dodging, who's surviving, because we do have to bring it into the Epcine Files because we are seeing so much of this crisis PR machinations happening behind the scenes.

00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:09.919
I looked at the New York Times because they were tracking every person who faced concrete consequences from the Epstein files.

00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:20.480
So let's just touch base on a couple of them and look for the teaching element, not the pile on because each one is its own case study.

00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:28.000
So let's walk through the ones that have made some of the headlines and look for the teaching angles here.

00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:33.360
And let's look at it as its own, as each one, and let's accountability and pressure.

00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:36.080
The first one, Les Wexner.

00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:40.799
He's the former Victoria Secret CEO, also major Republican donor.

00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:48.559
He has repeatedly said he was conned by Epstein, that he has no personal relationship with him, that he did nothing wrong.

00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:56.720
But if you listen to any podcast or you read any article, Les Wexner is tied so deeply to Epstein.

00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:00.320
The reason why we have an Epstein is because of Les Wexner.

00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:03.600
And this was interesting that came out a couple days ago.

00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:15.840
Four and a half hours into Wexner's deposition before the House Oversight Committee, Wexner was cut off by his own attorney with a very blunt warning.

00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:20.960
So before I play this viral clip, I just want warning language.

00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:34.960
Tell me the context.

00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:38.480
Because if if I just say yes or no, you won't understand it.

00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:42.399
And I just I really don't want this whole group to understand it.

00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:50.320
And uh I never would have guessed I was being con ever, ever.

00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:54.000
The deceit was so subtle.

00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:56.799
Yes, I answered the question.

00:13:57.279 --> 00:13:57.519
Okay.

00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:00.240
I'm sure we all appreciate the stories.

00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:04.080
We're just trying to answer the questions that they actually want to answer the question.

00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:05.200
That's very helpful.

00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:05.600
Thank you.

00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:06.960
I hope it is.

00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:12.320
And could I ask you, I think you said in the last hour it was your understanding that Mr.

00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:16.639
Epstein, while he was working for you, also had other clients.

00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:17.519
Is that right?

00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:18.320
Yes.

00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:24.320
So would that mean that his work for you, you understood it to be part-time?

00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:33.679
I wouldn't describe it that way.

00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:35.840
You know, I knew it wasn't full time.

00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:41.679
I thought it was full-time because he had other clients at substance, real substance.

00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:46.480
As a listener, it sounds like substantial demands that you're describing.

00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:56.080
You were, and of course, are one of the wealthiest people in the country managing all of your personal affairs, I would think, would typically demand all of somebody's bandwidth.

00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:59.039
It sounds like that was an issue with the guy before Epstein.

00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:04.320
How was he able to do that job, but also do work for other clients at the same time?

00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:09.679
I think Peg does the work now.

00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:18.159
Um I think you could supervise the work overview.

00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:37.679
And say you could do really thorough work if you were doing it three or four days a month, certainly a week or a day a day a month, just focusing on these things because they were accountables and tax lawyers and other people.

00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:41.679
And then what's in setting up sp as an example?

00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:48.639
I wouldn't have added inventory furniture or valuables.

00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:54.240
How could you have all silverware in your house and weapons?

00:15:55.600 --> 00:16:00.559
I didn't count forks and spoons, and it's like just that people could be walking out with forks and spoons.

00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:02.240
I think that's a good idea.

00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:03.840
We gotta have an inventory.

00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:11.440
I hired a lady that'd be like the house manager who had run the U.S.

00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:14.639
Embassy in Rome and said, Yeah, I know how to do this.

00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:18.639
And I said, And I said, Well, why don't we keep inventories of stuff?

00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:20.480
And she said, Well yeah, I could do that.

00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:25.759
So she did that as a as kind of a pinny example, but I wouldn't have had the idea.

00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:28.480
But then all the things were inventory.

00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:30.799
That wasn't work for me or Jeffrey.

00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:32.559
It was just regularly done.

00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:38.080
Answer not the question.

00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:42.720
Answer the question.

00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:43.200
Okay.

00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:45.840
Wow.

00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:47.679
Wow.

00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:49.600
That's a bad clip.

00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:55.279
But what Wexner is doing is in his testimony is this narrowing denial.

00:16:55.519 --> 00:17:03.279
You make a very specific, very narrow claim to create distance from the scandal, and the evidence slowly fills the gap.

00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:07.519
And the more specific the denial, the worse it looks when it falls apart.

00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:13.680
Because now you don't just have the original problem, you have a credibility problem on top of it.

00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:25.359
So we have to keep watching Wexner because it's going to be a master class in something: either how to survive congressional scrutiny or how not to.

00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:27.839
Next person, Thomas Pritzker.

00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:34.319
He stepped down as executive chairman of Hyatt Hotels after the files revealed he was in regular contact with Epstein.

00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:38.640
Not before 2008, when Epstein took his plea deal, but after.

00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:40.480
Years after.

00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:46.720
So in crisis communications, the continued association problem is one of the most damaging patterns there is.

00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:51.680
And that is a problem that is following a lot of these people associated with Epstein.

00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:55.759
They still communicated with them after 2008.

00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:04.960
It's one thing to have known someone before a scandal, but it's completely different when you've maintained contact after they were convicted of sex crimes.

00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:10.319
Public perception, and juries, by the way, treat those two things very differently.

00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:12.480
I didn't know is defensible.

00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:16.000
I knew and continued the relationship is not.

00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:26.000
Another person, the press and the public, everyone looking at, particularly coming out of the Winter Olympics, is Casey Wasserman and the 2028 Olympics.

00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:31.920
Now, this one is textbook crisis amplification through secondary roles.

00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:36.160
Wasserman is the chairman of the LA 2028 Olympics.

00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:39.680
Emails surfaced in the files.

00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:45.839
Emails surfaced showing flirtatious messages to Ghlaine Maxwell.

00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:49.680
Dozens of musicians and performers left his talent agency.

00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:51.039
Now he's selling it.

00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:56.079
And he was selling it so quickly, it almost felt like it was okay to sell.

00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:56.559
I don't know.

00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:02.640
I don't know anything about this, but it happened so quickly to decide to completely let go of your agency.

00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:03.839
But I don't know, who knows?

00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:08.160
Maybe he did decide to sell it after these files were released.

00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:09.359
But there's a lesson here.

00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:13.519
Your highest profile role determines the severity of your crisis.

00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:18.240
Because if Wasserman had been a private citizen, this may have been containable for him.

00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:24.160
But when you're a public face of not just your agency, so you let it go, but now the Olympics.

00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:31.200
That is a global symbol of integrity and youth and sports and teamwork.

00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:33.680
The bar is entirely different.

00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:38.640
So the context doesn't just shape the narrative here, it determines the consequence.

00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:46.799
So as of now, he is still the chair of the LA 2028 Olympics, but I don't know how he possibly could be.

00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:48.400
Think about the Winter Olympics.

00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:50.799
Think about all the stories about the Winter Olympics.

00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:56.319
Did you watch the women winning the gold medal hockey game, all the women competing?

00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:03.039
How could you watch females compete in the 2028 Olympics without thinking about Casey Wasserman?

00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:04.960
Or maybe you don't think about Casey Wasserman.

00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:06.400
Maybe you wouldn't by then.

00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:10.319
But right now, as they plan for it, I don't know.

00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:14.400
Next, Leo Botstein and Bard College.

00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:16.960
This is another one that I've been following.

00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:20.640
I posted something on social media when I was in Arizona last week.

00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:30.880
Actually, Greg and I were in Arizona and he read the headline about Leo Botstein being found out in the files because he reported in New York for over 45 years.

00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:34.720
So he was quite familiar with Leon Botstein and Bard College.

00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:47.519
And he had noticed in this Time Unions article that his name came up and in the files, and his spokesperson came up with a rather sharp, curt response to his name being in there.

00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:59.599
So what's interesting is that Botstein doesn't have your typical college communication, communication staff, your college communication staff responding for him.

00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:09.759
You know, it's not the same person who's writing a press release saying, Bard College is coming out with this new event, or we now are offering Japanese sculpting classes.

00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:15.200
No, this is someone who has a long history, David Wade, working with Democrat politics.

00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:17.359
I mean, this guy is an operative.

00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:20.400
He is the person working with Leon Botstein.

00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:28.559
And he wrote a statement and he likened it to, and it had one of those sharp, curt touches to it.

00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:33.920
On February 10th, the Times Union published a story by Sarah Tafton.

00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:41.119
In the files, it was said that Epstein told assistants to ensure the woman was, quote, appropriately dressed for Botstein.

00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:42.960
That's not good.

00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:51.920
David Wade, in one of his statements, said that the email is impossible to interpret, quote, without a Ouija board.

00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:58.720
And I don't know if that's his way, very snarky way of saying you can't prove anything.

00:21:58.799 --> 00:21:59.680
And if you do, you have to.

00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:04.079
Summon the ghosts or the dead to come up with the answer.

00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:06.640
It's something that you'll never be able to prove.

00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:10.799
Is that what you want from a college president?

00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:24.960
Now, as of now, Liam Botstein is still at Bard College, and the Board of Trustees have hired a law firm, Wilmer Hale, who have, you know, and this is a firm that's been involved in a lot of the big cases there.

00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:32.079
So now Bard College is investing a lot of money into investigating its own president.

00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:39.759
There have been a lot of letters coming out to staff and to students and to alum because people are affording them to me.

00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:46.640
So until this independent review is complete, you know, Botstein has led Bard for over 50 years.

00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:49.440
He raised millions to save the school from closure.

00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:55.759
And documents show he was corresponding with Epstein about music and watches and young female musicians.

00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:00.640
The Bard's board response was procedurally solid.

00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:08.720
They hired Wilmer Hale, a respected outside law firm who's been involved in a lot of big name court cases.

00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:12.960
They're now doing an independent review and they promise to share the results.

00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:16.799
And they also acknowledge the community's pain, which is important.

00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:19.519
Here's a quote from the Bardboard letter.

00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:27.359
We recognize and feel how difficult this moment is for our community and the pain and concern that it has caused.

00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:37.119
That is acknowledging pain without admitting wrongdoing, expressing empathy without making a specific commitment, buying time while appearing responsive.

00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:40.720
This is a deliberately constructed sentence.

00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:43.519
Now, is the outside investigation a bad thing?

00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:45.920
No, it can be genuinely valuable.

00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:49.039
And it's important to have independent reviews.

00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:52.160
The question to ask: who hired the investigators?

00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:53.519
What is their mandate?

00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:55.279
When do we get results?

00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:01.680
Those three questions will tell you whether this investigation is substance or theater.

00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:06.640
Another interesting one is Goldman Sachs and Catherine Rumler.

00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:11.279
And here's a case of institutional silence, a strategy.

00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:17.359
Rumler was a general counsel at Goldman, but before that, she was a top Obama administration lawyer.

00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:20.960
And emails have shown a deep friendship with Epstein.

00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:27.279
She was advising him on how to respond to questions about sex crimes while he was sending her gifts and career advice.

00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:30.160
She is now stepping down in June.

00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:35.519
Goldman's response, notably quiet, almost no public statement.

00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:39.680
And that silence is itself a communication choice.

00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:49.759
So when an institution says almost nothing about a departing executive who's caught up in the scandal, the silence signals we are not defending this person and we want distance.

00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:52.240
Goldman doesn't need to say that out loud.

00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:55.119
The silence says it for them in this case.

00:24:55.279 --> 00:25:03.519
And it actually protects the institution better than any statement would in this case, because a statement creates a record to be picked apart.

00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:20.000
This story is one that I believe illustrates how Epstein was able to get into such elite circles, but also to bring people in who wanted to be in elite circles.

00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:29.680
If you work for an administration, and in this case, Rumler work for Obama, you have power, but you don't have money.

00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:32.640
You don't have income because you're a public servant.

00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:33.519
The money's not there.

00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:34.720
The money comes after.

00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:37.119
Naturally, she landed at Goldman Sachs.

00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:47.359
So it's not surprising to see people who get caught up in it when there are gifts involved and when there's access to power, which is so much about what this story is.

00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:52.079
It's an elitist story, not just a billionaire story, but an elitist story.

00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:54.960
That brings me to the next person, Howard Lutnick.

00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:56.640
He's the commerce secretary.

00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:02.640
And Lutnick acknowledges encounters with Epstein after he claimed he'd cut ties, important to note.

00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:05.200
Now, there have been a lot of calls for his resignation.

00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:12.240
And talk about a guy whose reputation has changed so significantly since 9-11.

00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:22.079
I mean, we're coming up to a very, very important milestone, an anniversary, if you will, for 9-11 on September 11, 2026.

00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:32.559
And if you think back to the coverage of Lutnick, who ran Cantor Fitzgerald, who was bringing his son to kindergarten that day, who lost his brother, who lost so many employees there.

00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:35.680
I mean, he was a sympathetic figure for so long.

00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:40.079
But now he's another guy who's flying in these circles.

00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:48.079
He has two sons who are deep into making profit off of where Howard Lutnick rests now within the administration.

00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:52.400
The New York Times did a great deep dive on the Lutnick family.

00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:55.920
He's currently still in his seat, but what does that tell us?

00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:00.720
Political cover changes the accountability calculus.

00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:03.680
It doesn't change what happened, it doesn't change the facts.

00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:07.599
But the administration is 100% going to stand by Lutnick.

00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:13.279
I mean, this is still crisis communication at work, but not for the sake of doing the right thing.

00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:16.720
This is crisis communication with power.

00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:25.279
So the five patterns that come out of today's podcast from these stories, let's step back, is across all the cases.

00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:33.119
Andrew, Wexener, Pritzker, Wasserman, Botstein, Rumler, Lutnick, the same patterns keep showing up.

00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:39.920
And these are patterns that crisis communicators, crisis managers, advise their clients.

00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:47.519
So when you analyze these crises in real time, or even when you're in the situation yourself, you can look for these patterns.

00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:55.039
Pattern one, the continued association problem before the conviction is defensible, after the conviction is not.

00:27:55.200 --> 00:28:00.079
That line matters enormously to public perception and to juries.

00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:06.559
So for lawyers, they have to know where their client sits relative to that line.

00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:09.839
Pattern two, the narrowing denial.

00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:15.039
The more specific the denial, the more damage when it falls apart.

00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:21.839
A narrow claim creates a narrow gap, and evidence fills that gap.

00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:29.759
It's better to acknowledge broadly and let the investigation run than make claims that documents can contradict.

00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:32.000
And the internet is going to contradict.

00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:34.880
Andrew's going to say that, oh, I can't sweat.

00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:37.359
The internet will find photos of you sweating.

00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:39.519
That's why it's so difficult to do.

00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:43.920
Pattern three, the institution abandonment sequence.

00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:50.319
Institutions protect the individual as long as the cost of protection is manageable.

00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:52.960
The royal family, Goldman Sachs.

00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:58.960
The moment the cost exceeds the benefit, they step back quietly without fanfare.

00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:03.039
If the institution goes silent, that's the signal.

00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:06.720
That is the signal that the person is on their own.

00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:10.960
Pattern four, the outside investigation gambit.

00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:13.440
So not inherently dishonest.

00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:15.599
It can be genuinely valuable.

00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:17.680
But questions to ask.

00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:25.920
The answers tell you if it's substance or theater.

00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:27.200
We'll see.

00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:29.359
We will see with BARD.

00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:35.119
In many cases, they want to do an investigation because they hope the news dies down and no one pays attention.

00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:42.000
But in today's content-driven market, people will pay attention and people will be watching, including me.

00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:46.319
And pattern five: context determines the consequence.

00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:51.119
The same conduct creates very different crises depending on the public role.

00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:56.559
So a private citizen compared to the chairman of the Olympics, they're not equivalent.

00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:01.920
The highest profile position sets the bar for everything else.

00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:04.160
So, what is this really all about?

00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:07.599
Let's end on something that's bigger than the tactics here.

00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:12.400
Every single person in these files made choices.

00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:20.720
Some were made with ignorance, some in complicity, some out of ambition or greed, some willful blindness.

00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:23.119
But now those choices are public record.

00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:25.119
There are three million pages of them.

00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:29.599
Crisis communications helps you navigate the aftermath.

00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:36.960
It can create, okay, so, and that's where crisis communication comes in because it helps navigate the aftermath.

00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:46.079
It shapes narrative, it preserves reputations, it protects an institution, but it cannot manufacture integrity that was never there.

00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:49.440
That's the line drawn for me in my business.

00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:53.920
I did an interview last week with WCVB, they're the ABC affiliate out of Boston.

00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:58.000
And one of the questions the producer asked me, where do you draw the line with clients?

00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:03.039
And I mentioned I have, there are third rails in my business that I won't touch.

00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:07.440
I would never be hired as a PR fixer if someone wanted to get out of something.

00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:08.480
That's not me.

00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:12.240
I'm the person you hire to get through it.

00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:15.279
So I do not manufacture integrity.

00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:24.880
I need to work with people who have integrity, but perhaps momentarily lost it, or they lost their way, or they got scared and now they need help.

00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:27.039
And it's what I keep coming back to.

00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:36.640
And it's what I teach in my monthly membership lessons in my Substack membership is that the best crisis communication happens before the crisis.

00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:41.839
It happens in the choices you make when nobody's watching, because eventually somebody always is.

00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:44.720
Andrew knew that, Wexer knew that, Pritzker knew that.

00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:48.160
They all bet the documents would stay sealed forever.

00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:49.440
And they were wrong.

00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:51.680
So want to be a part of the conversation?

00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:55.680
Join me Friday, March 6th for a PR breakdown live.

00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:57.519
Let's go deep in the royal family.

00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:00.000
Let's talk about Andrew Mountbatten Witzer.

00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:04.000
Let's talk about the former Prince Andrew and his legal situation.

00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:10.240
Let's talk about Harry and Megan and Wills and Catherine and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex and the Prince and Princess of Wales.

00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:12.319
Let's talk about King Charles and Queen Camille.

00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:13.359
Let's talk about all of it.

00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:16.240
Bring your questions, your thoughts, and your tidbits.

00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:19.200
All the information located in the show notes.

00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:29.039
And if this kind of analysis is useful to you or interesting, this is what I do often in my vaults, as in what's said in it, stays in it.

00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:31.119
You can join my Substack.

00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:34.960
The link again again, you can find the link in the show notes.

00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:40.400
You can always be a part of the community, or you can just subscribe and get links to important information.

00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:43.359
That's all for this week for this edition of the podcast.

00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:44.799
Thanks so much for listening.

00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:46.079
Bye for now.