Feb. 9, 2026

What Went Wrong at the Nancy Guthrie Press Conference

When law enforcement calls a press conference, they're supposed to provide clarity and control the narrative. Last week's Pima County Sheriff's press conference about missing 84-year-old Nancy Guthrie—mother of Today Show anchor Savannah Guthrie—did the opposite. I brought on Emmy-winning former network correspondent Clayton Sandell to break down what went wrong. He spoke with me during a live chat on Substack on February 6, 2026. Clayton spent 25+ years covering major breaking news for ABC a...

I brought on Emmy-winning former network correspondent Clayton Sandell to break down what went wrong. He spoke with me during a live chat on Substack on February 6, 2026. Clayton spent 25+ years covering major breaking news for ABC and Scripps, and now trains leaders on crisis communication. If anyone knows what a press conference should look like, it's him.

We dissect:

Why Sheriff Nanos appeared defensive and disorganized from the start
The critical mistakes: "Your guess is as good as mine" and "mistakes will be made"
How the FBI agent's composure highlighted the sheriff's struggles
Ashley Banfield's controversial reporting on a "person of interest"
Whether the $50,000 reward press conference was even necessary
Why the family's ransom video echoes Silence of the Lambs
How NBC is managing tragedy during Olympic coverage

This isn't a true-crime episode; it's crisis communication. However, the discussion does shed light on how an investigation can lose its way. When a press conference becomes part of the crisis instead of the solution, every misstep gets magnified. This case study shows exactly how that happens in real time.

What you'll learn: How to spot when officials are scrambling versus strategically withholding information, the difference between media training for one-on-ones versus press conferences, why "focusing on process" signals a lack of substantive leads, and what reporters are really looking for when they're in that room.

Guest: Clayton Sandell, Emmy Award-winning former ABC News and Scripps correspondent, crisis communication trainer

Watch the press conference here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzPe6wG3GY0

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00:00 - When Briefings Create Crises

00:24 - Setting The Stage: Case Context

01:16 - Introducing Clayton Sandel’s Lens

03:26 - Unforced Errors And Mixed Messages

06:55 - Room Dynamics And Media Pressure

10:49 - What To Say First At The Mic

14:40 - Why Hold The Presser At All

18:20 - Word Vomit Versus Focused Updates

20:00 - Kidnapping Or Random Crime

23:40 - Coverage, Celebrity, And News Values

27:30 - Federal Versus Local Dynamics

31:20 - Gen Z Attention And Morbid Curiosity

35:00 - Signals Of A Scramble

38:20 - The “Your Guess” Moment

41:10 - Sourcing, Banfield, And Verification

46:35 - Parallel Investigations By Newsrooms

WEBVTT

00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:06.000
What happens when a law enforcement press conference becomes part of the crisis?

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There are press conferences that inform the public, and then there are press conferences that accidentally reveal far more than they intend to.

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It's not about the case, but about the chaos.

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Welcome back to the PR Breakdown.

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I'm your host, Molly McPherson.

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You may have seen last week the sheriff from Pima County and the FBI hold a news conference regarding the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, the 84-year-old mother of today's anchor Savannah Guthrie.

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The authorities were asking the public for help.

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They don't have much to go on.

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But what unfolded at that bank of microphones last week wasn't an update.

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It was more of a case study on what happens when messaging starts to wobble in public.

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In a moment like this, particularly for Savannah Guthrie and her family, and a news story that is taking over the news cycle.

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People aren't only listening for facts.

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They're watching for whether the person in charge sounds like they know where this is headed or whether they're trying to catch up in real time.

00:01:16.959 --> 00:01:20.560
I brought someone on who knows exactly what that room feels like.

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Clayton Sandel is an Emmy Award-winning former network news correspondent and producer with more than 25 years of experience covering major breaking news for ABC and scripts.

00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:37.120
And now he trains leaders and organizations on how to handle moments just like the one we watched last week.

00:01:37.359 --> 00:01:40.640
And disclaimer, this is not a true crime episode.

00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:45.760
It's a crisis communication episode, but we did talk about elements of the case.

00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:55.920
But we also talked about what went wrong at the microphone and what should have happened instead, and why press conferences can be a secondary crisis all on their own.

00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:58.959
All right, let's get into it.

00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:08.159
Overall, it was it was rough.

00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:10.319
It was uh, I think you called it a train wreck.

00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:12.000
I would, I would agree with that.

00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:17.680
I think that um, you know, first of all, this is a really tough I I you know I have some empathy for the sheriff.

00:02:17.759 --> 00:02:19.439
This is a really tough position to be in.

00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:21.360
This is a high-profile case.

00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:23.199
It's being covered internationally.

00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:29.680
You know, I saw stories this morning from the Daily Mail, the BBC, you know, from those guys all the way to entertainment tonight.

00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:35.360
I mean, they're they're all sort of there in the room, and it is tough to do your job in a at a time like that.

00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:48.560
But that being said, there were a lot of, I think, unforced errors in in this press conference where I do think ultimately they don't they don't really know what's happening in this case and and they're flailing a little bit.

00:02:48.719 --> 00:02:58.080
Um, but and you saw some of that, and you saw some mixed messaging and and um uh some sort of backtracking, and like you said, they were back on their heels in quite a bit.

00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:02.240
I think they could have come out and and been much, much shorter.

00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:06.240
It was interesting as as you you and I were watching it yesterday.

00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:14.319
I agreed with you that you know, you kept saying there's no news here, there's nothing new, and and you were right in that moment.

00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:22.319
But when you go back and look at that press conference, there actually was a lot of news that came out of it, but it was so damn disorganized.

00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:24.240
That's exactly it.

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Came out in drips and drabs and piecemeal.

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You know, we learned about the blood on the porch, the timeline, the reward, the arrest of an impostor, the fact that there was no surveillance video, the deadlines, all of that stuff came out.

00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:41.919
And when you when you combine that, there was, you know, there was it was newsworthy.

00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:44.240
Well, let me ask you this question first off the back.

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Absolutely the Pima County Sheriff Presser yesterday, the feed went live, I believe, right at the top of the hour.

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They weren't quite ready yet, but the the PIO, the public information officer, was in the background.

00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:03.520
You could hear just the pitch and tone, there was stress there.

00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:15.039
You know this going into a town that a lot of these law enforcement offices aren't necessarily set up to handle national and international press.

00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:15.520
Right.

00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:29.519
But yesterday, when they were getting the room uh all situated, it reminded me, and I had said this in the live, of the press conferences around the flooding in Texas over July 4th.

00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:39.199
Oh, and in the Hill Country when at the Mystic Camp, all those hill, it had the same mood in the room where it was frenetic, the press was there.

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Right.

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And right off the bat, I noticed right in the beginning, the sheriff comes out and lectures the press, like contentionally.

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Tell me your thoughts on that.

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Yeah, I I think that's a I think I think that's a sign that you are they are they are defensive about um about the progress of the case, I think is the the heart of that, is is they realize that there hasn't been much new information.

00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:10.399
They haven't found Nancy.

00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:22.720
They um they don't have a lot to go on at this point, and so taking shots at the process, I think is um is probably uh is kind of kind of a desperate move.

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And I think I think the sheriff, you know, is probably used to dealing with local reporters, and they all kind of have a familiarity and opinions maybe in terms of their worms.

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And now he's got you know people, uh national reporters parachuting in that are that are have no relationship to him, have no good point allegiance or anything.

00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:46.800
And so they're gonna be, I think, much, much tougher and and harder.

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Um but um right off the bat, he comes up to the bank of mics, and he says, I'd ask, so I'd ask that you just kind of be patient with me, pay attention to the questions asked, because sometimes you guys want to ask the same question twice, and you'll get the same answer.

00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:08.319
So you have to help yourself get what you can get out of this.

00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:15.839
And and then he he diverted into like there was a like a tragedy, like an accident that happened to me.

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Which is awful.

00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:36.000
But Colleen, would you agree with me that it felt right off the bat, if you're in that room and you're a member of the press, how should a spokesperson, not a PIO, but like a head law enforcement, what's the first thing they should say when they come up to the bake of mic?

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What do you want to hear as a reporter or a producer?

00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:47.360
Um, I, you know, usually what they do, I mean, typically what they do is they just come up there and they they uh announce who is going to be there.

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They'll they'll spell the names, you know, they'll do, they'll do the basics because they know that there are people who don't know you know that this the FBI special agent in charge or how to spell the sheriff's name or pronounce it or whatever.

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So I think in the case.

00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:08.079
Yeah, and I, you know, that's that's your basics, but again, they mean that they're probably not used to to dealing with out-of-town press who don't know.

00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:11.680
And so they're probably assuming that that everybody knows who everybody is, maybe.

00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:23.759
Um but that's always you know, that's always helpful to know who is going to be talking, especially if you have three or four officials that that get up there and then you know, kind of lay out what the what the expectations are.

00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:38.079
We're gonna we're gonna we've got some new information we're gonna give you, and we're gonna talk about uh a reward, yeah, give a little preview and then um and and then kind of we're gonna we're gonna ask three or four questions and then that's that's all we have.

00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:39.600
We're gonna move on and get back to work.

00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:44.959
Let's say you're in the room and um Sheriff Nanos Nanos walks up.

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In the first minute when he's talking, do you think he how do you think he's feeling in his head that like is he confident?

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Does he have information?

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Why did he in other words, why did they call that press conference yesterday?

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What was the reason?

00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:07.120
Um, I think probably uh number one, a logistics one.

00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:15.519
I a day or two before he had done uh he had talked about how his entire day was answering press and uh questions from the press.

00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:19.600
He he was doing not only the press conferences, but I noticed he was doing a lot of one-on-one.

00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:21.279
Yeah, I noticed that too.

00:08:21.519 --> 00:08:22.480
Some of the network people.

00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:36.399
And so I think it was partially a way to get everybody in one room for an hour or whatever and and get all the questions addressed uh in one place so he's not spending so much time um doing all of that stuff.

00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:40.320
But no, I don't think he was uh overly, overly confident.

00:08:40.399 --> 00:08:43.200
He seemed to be uh largely focused on process.

00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:56.399
He kept talking about lab results coming back and working with tech companies and all, you know, he kept going into all of these things that they're they're doing and and uh telling people, well, the the results haven't haven't come back yet.

00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:00.960
Yeah, we know you can step on the gas a little bit to get those results in.

00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:02.960
So that's a really good point.

00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:06.320
Yeah, I didn't realize anybody was buying uh a lot of that.

00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:22.960
Um, you know, he did fairly early on say that we have not identified a suspect or a person of interest, and we could talk about at the band field and all that stuff in that first you know, 15 minutes that there was anything um particularly new newsworthy to call it.

00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:30.960
Yeah, I think I think it was yeah, I think it was the first 15 minutes, it seemed disorganized and completely disorganized questioning why are we here.

00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:38.879
When I was first watching within the 15 minutes, I did see him pop up on a number of media interviews one-on-one.

00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:56.639
Well, when you get to that point when also you are the chief law enforcement POC or point of contact for this, and you're doing media interviews, there's an optics issue, particularly with a case where they're going on so little.

00:09:57.279 --> 00:09:59.919
And then the other piece of it is Ashley Banfield.

00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:07.519
So let's talk about just in the moment, first before I get to Nashley Banfield, should they have done that press conference yesterday?

00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:10.639
Was there enough news to warrant a press conference yesterday?

00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:21.600
Yes, I think I think I think uh simply the um the existence of the reward, you know, that is um you know, that's big.

00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:22.799
That's that's a lot of money.

00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:25.759
And uh but tell me about the fifty thousand dollars.

00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:30.320
Does that seem like a it's a good starting point?

00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:35.759
I think you know, uh as as rewards go, I think they can always they can always kind of go up from there.

00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:49.679
Um but I think that really, you know, I actually actually talked to a former FBI, um, he he's retired from the bureau now, but I talked to a former FBI source of mine last night, and then and we were kind of kicking this around.

00:10:49.759 --> 00:11:04.960
And and his his key takeaway was not saying much outside of asking for help is really the best thing that you can do because then you do get this sense that they're sort of flailing around.

00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:06.720
And wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:14.320
Are you saying your FBI's your your source said that from a from a presser point of view that it was good?

00:11:14.799 --> 00:11:29.759
No, no, no, no, that it was not good, that it was not good, that they were sort of word vomiting in that press conference, and what they should have done was talk about the reward, talk about the timeline, talk about the things that they could talk about, and then kind of move on.

00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:32.639
I have to ask, and I know you asked this.

00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:36.480
I mean, of course, what does your source think is going on?

00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:39.440
I know that you guys talked about it.

00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:40.240
I know you did.

00:11:40.480 --> 00:12:00.399
Uh yeah, I mean the the sense of it is um and and and the the FBI guy in the press conference sort of said the same thing that that uh uh one of my one of my sources said, which was you would have expected to hear from someone by now if this was an actual kidnapping.

00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:00.879
Right.

00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:07.440
Um it just you know, these things don't go on this long with without some sort of legitimate contact.

00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:12.559
And I know there's the the hoaxes and the uh the other the other ransom notes that they're investigating.

00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:22.240
Um but uh this is the the sense is from from my friend was that this is not this is not a kidnapping.

00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:26.480
This this is probably probably a random crime.

00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:28.799
Probably random.

00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:33.679
Yeah the thing yo well random, somebody unknown, like not, you know.

00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:38.799
Not in the family, not not in not in the family, um, he didn't think.

00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:50.799
Uh you know, the thing about also the thing about Pima County is that it is it's something like 9,000 square miles, and most of it is very rural space.

00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:54.879
Tucson's really the only uh major, major city in the county.

00:12:55.759 --> 00:13:01.519
Um, and you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of area to search, there's a lot of ground to cover physical ground to cover.

00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:05.200
And um, but yeah, I mean the the sense is that this was not made.

00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:12.399
Clayton, you're do you I mean, this isn't not a crime, true crime chat, but what can you think?

00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:13.120
What do you think?

00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:14.559
Funny, there's so many.

00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:33.440
I'm not an armchair detective, but um yeah, I I I tend to I tend to think the same thing that it's probably um a crime that was, you know, maybe the maybe whoever did it knew of her or or you know uh uh uh the house is you know, it's a nice house, nice neighborhood.

00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:36.960
Could have been some sort of financial thing.

00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:45.440
But I also think that think that you know, if you're kidnapping somebody, um you know, you you don't hurt them, you don't you don't injure them.

00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:49.279
And that's that's uh clearly what happened uh in this case.

00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:51.120
And so I don't know.

00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:54.720
Uh I I hope we can't say I'm not gonna hold you to this at all.

00:13:54.960 --> 00:14:03.840
Well, you know, and that's I but I think it also gets to um one of the reasons why why this case is has garnered so much coverage.

00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:12.559
One thing we could talk about and is, you know, I've heard people say, well, you know, should this be the lead on the on the on the evening news every night?

00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:16.240
And um, yeah, you know, is this just because of celebrity?

00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:38.320
And and you know, I can say the when when I covered missing persons cases, and I covered a lot of them over the years, there were there were constant almost discussions in the newsroom about things like missing white woman syndrome, and you know, why are we covering this case and not talking about uh missing and murdered indigenous women?

00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:44.639
And you know, these these discussions are are happening, and I'm sure they're happening uh now.

00:14:45.039 --> 00:15:00.399
Um and I think it's also complicated by the celebrity because NBC and Savannah Guthrie have, you know, like like any anchor on any morning show, uh they are going to work to build that parasocial relationship.

00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:02.960
They want you to feel like you know you're part of the family.

00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:06.879
Wake up with us and have your coffee and we'll tell you what's going on in the world.

00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:11.519
And so we are invested in in Savannah's life.

00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:16.240
Um, and obviously in it internally, NBC is is um invested in this story.

00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:23.200
And so there's a lot of reasons why I think it's getting so much coverage, even though, yes, there are bigger and more existential threats.

00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:37.039
There are well, definitely other stories, but you want to know what's interesting about it too, and I'm sure you share this, it's that it's involving a news personality, it's involving talent in one network.

00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:37.759
Yes.

00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:58.240
So what complicates it is like so you have other networks covering a network, and you have the network NBC not only juggling and ramping up Olympic coverage where Savannah and Craig Melvin are supposed to be, and how neither are going.

00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:01.919
There's a lot of money on the line there, and there's a lot of background.

00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:11.919
We can't even imagine producers scrambling right now what they're doing, but also a lot of people chirping in about the Epstein files.

00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:18.320
How the administration probably loves this as a head story.

00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:30.159
And in my mind, and I don't know if I said this on the live yesterday or if this is my brain thinking, that out of the administration they have disruptive moments where they flood the zone with whatever they want to as a distraction.

00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:36.240
There's already a built-in distraction, and we're not getting much out of the out of the White House.

00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:37.360
What do you think about that?

00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:48.399
Well, I I actually had this thought yesterday that um, you know, typically the FBI has always been historically very deferential to local authorities.

00:16:48.480 --> 00:17:02.000
Like they'll offer assistance and they've got tons of resources around the country and the world that they can help on a on a case, but they don't generally in the past have not wanted to be seen as taking over an investigation.

00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:05.680
But with this Justice Department, you never know.

00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:17.599
And obviously the the dynamic is has shifted and and uh been tested a little bit in in Minneapolis when it comes to federal authorities and and local cops.

00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:20.720
And I just I and we know the president loves celebrity, right?

00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:43.839
So I actually had the thought yesterday that I could see I could see a scenario in which the president orders the Justice Department to take over this case as a way to make news about it and and maybe maybe distract from some total guess, complete hypothetical, but um but you know in this in this day and age, like happening.

00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:54.799
I think because this story it has has bled to so many different areas, the White House is doesn't need to do that yet, and they're probably enjoying it.

00:17:55.039 --> 00:18:21.839
And also the the FBI, cash would tell, not to bring in like Charlie Kirk when they were railed on the work there, because things are getting done, and the local the local special agent in charge who's doing with the FBI is there, it seems like the the White House needs to wants to be standoff on this one, just let it ride because it is picking up a lot of uh it is picking up a lot of eyeballs, I think.

00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:25.519
People watching it, but also which is interesting to me, Gen Z.

00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:32.160
I like I I would add like I have Gen Z people, like my kids' friends, like reaching out, like, what do you think?

00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:32.640
What do you think?

00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:36.400
And I even ask them, do you know who Savannah Guthrie is?

00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:40.319
And network news to them, but they're invested.

00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:41.759
Gen Z is invested.

00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:43.200
Yeah, yeah, you're right.

00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:56.400
And it's it's um, you know, it involves uh, as you said, a well-known uh TV personality in some regard, but also uh, you know, it's it's a mystery and there's there's some gruesome details, we don't know what happens.

00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:09.039
Um and you know, I'm not a psychologist, but the reason I think we we gravitate towards these stories is and always have an interest in these stories is you you know, we think, could this happen to us?

00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:11.920
We wonder who is capable of doing something like this.

00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:12.480
Right.

00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:20.960
There's there's mystery, there's danger to it, but the danger is is distant and not not not a threat to us uh right away.

00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:25.119
And so there's sort of a natural, morbid curiosity about it.

00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:27.039
There is still a glimmer of hope.

00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:39.759
And I think that's what you know also people seize onto, and and one of the reasons why it continues to be like maybe when I was watching and I saw the guy come out, hold up the paper, the white balance, it's throwback.

00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.720
You don't see a lot of press conferences like this anymore.

00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:58.880
I I've got just to kind of bring it back to that press conference yesterday, I think part of it as well is that Peabt County is probably getting a lot of grief and pressure for answers and to figure this out because it is so unusual.

00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:11.599
Yeah and this is long a long-term type of a case, uh added in the hostage element of it and and she needs medication and and all this other stuff, part of it.

00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:20.720
But I also feel that it was personal that the sheriff, it's getting to him as well, but he showed a lot of information.

00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:26.400
And I think what we really learned is that they don't have anything.

00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:28.400
Like, are are you feeling that?

00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:36.319
I I think that's true, and I think that's why you're seeing um so much focus on on the process again.

00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:49.680
I think where that where you kind of read between the lines a little bit is um, you know, when they're asked about suspects and family, and they don't want to they don't want to bat themselves into a corner and and say anything about that.

00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:51.759
So so everybody's a suspect.

00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:52.400
Right.

00:20:52.640 --> 00:21:06.000
And when everybody's a suspect, that to me tells me that they are they are still trying to find trying trying to find a thread or a lead that they can that they can get their hands on follow, yeah.

00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:19.839
Um you just said it too, and you know this, we all know this, that law enforcement sometimes has information, they don't share information, but they'll do a press conference asking for information, even though they know a narrative.

00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:29.519
But from this press conference and your sources and you just watching it, you really get the feeling that they are scrambling, that they really don't have much to go on.

00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:32.559
Yeah, because there is there is not a lot of information.

00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:36.799
Um, you know, you know, and and that's that's one thing my my former FBI guy said yesterday.

00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:41.440
It's like there should always be things that uh only the cops and the bad guys know, right?

00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:42.319
Right.

00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:51.599
But you know, what we do know is is a lot of just little things that are are you know don't don't seem to add up to much.

00:21:51.839 --> 00:22:05.920
And you know, the more that the longer this press conference went on yesterday, and the more reporters were asking questions like there was there was the the one that That to me, where somebody asked about have you checked the pharmacies to see if yeah things have been filled?

00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:10.480
And and he goes, uh, well, we we did, but maybe we need to go back and do that again.

00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:13.920
Oh my gosh, that was one of his low points.

00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:15.519
That was one of his low points.

00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:23.039
Um, and and I and I just thought that does not uh instill a lot of confidence in in what's going on.

00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:25.680
And then he he did this one at least twice.

00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:37.759
And I think you noted this one too, but I my jaw dropped open when he said he was asked, I think, about motive and and something else, but he said uh at one point, again, a couple of times, your guess is as good as mine.

00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:39.279
And I went, wait a minute.

00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:43.200
No, you your your guess should be a lot better than mine.

00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:47.200
You're guessed, you're the ones wearing the badge, you're the guy in charge of the detectives.

00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:49.279
Your guess should be a lot better than mine.

00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:55.359
You know, never say that, even if you think that that's the truth.

00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:57.200
At least never, never, never, ever say that.

00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:05.519
And he also said, too, he and he said it a few times, um, almost chastising himself, this self-flagellation at the mic.

00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:11.039
Well, we can Monday morning quarterback, and well, if I'm Monday morning quarterback, I would have done it differently.

00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:16.240
It's like, oh my gosh, you are mid-investigation and you're already admitting to making mistakes.

00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:16.880
Yeah, yeah.

00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:19.119
And he said he said mistakes are going to be made.

00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:26.240
And I just what I thought when I when I heard him say that was, dude, you are gonna be asked that in a deposition.

00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:28.160
You know, you're gonna be asked about that.

00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:29.200
What do you mean, mistake?

00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:31.839
What do you mean you would have done something differently?

00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:39.359
That you know, it was just um at that point, it was just like uh the PIO needed to wrap it up with that.

00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:52.960
We also had, and I did a post about this, we had Ashley Banfield, right, who uh was formerly MSNBC and for within the NBC uh family, and then she moved over to News Nation.

00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:59.279
And I only found out when I was watching her interview that she's a contributor now, she no longer has a show on News Nation.

00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:02.319
She had a law enforcement source.

00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:06.720
Now, you yourself in this chat are talking about having law enforcement sources.

00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:12.400
When she announced that she had this source, that there are two interesting, interesting things about it.

00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:22.400
One is that it didn't get a lot of pickup, but two, I I I agree, I feel that what she's saying is accurate and true.

00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:23.519
It's absolutely believable.

00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:25.279
Why would a reporter not say that?

00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:32.000
Yeah, so I think this gets into uh you know a discussion of sourcing, and I have no idea what her sources are.

00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:35.440
Um, she's certainly an accomplished reporter.

00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:38.240
Um, she uh has been at this a long time.

00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:40.799
I and she you know you meant you mentioned her career.

00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:43.519
She was actually at ABC at the same time I was for a time.

00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:45.920
Only like a year or two maybe.

00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:46.960
Was that improving?

00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:47.680
That was before.

00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:50.960
It was right around 2010, and I'll tell you why I know that.

00:24:51.279 --> 00:25:01.519
Because um she came to ABC, and uh I I at that time was like the junior correspondent.

00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:06.319
I was working on the weekends, and there was a shooting at the University of Alabama in Huntsville.

00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:12.880
There was a college professor that killed three people and wounded some others.

00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:21.519
And she uh the female, the professor was a female, which was unusual because most mess shooters are male, and so case got a lot of attention.

00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:25.440
I flew out on like a Saturday or Sunday to cover it for the weekend shows.

00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:36.000
And at the time, like I said, I was the junior guy, so they would send in the the the grown-up correspondent to to Bigfoot Y off a story on on uh for the for the weekday shows.

00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:38.000
And they sent Ashley in.

00:25:38.640 --> 00:26:02.000
And one day, it was a Sunday, I think, and my my producer um Brian and I were walking into the um the campus police station for a meeting with the PIO or one of the investigators, and we were in there for 15, 20 minutes, came out, and we're walking back to our car, which was probably a you know, American-made SUV of some type, probably look like a cop car.

00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:12.640
But out of the corner of my eye, I see Ashley Banfield running toward me in the parking lot, and her producer is trailing behind her, and she comes up to us and starts just peppering us with questions.

00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:14.720
I think she thought we were cops.

00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:21.920
I think we thought we had something to do with this case and was wanting to ask us questions and and can we exchange phone numbers and all of that?

00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:28.000
And then her producer kind of caught on and realized that that we were both there on behalf of ABC News.

00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:31.680
Um, you know, and so we kind of had a laugh about that.

00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:37.680
But the point, the reason I tell that story is that tells you the kind of reporter that Ashley Danfield is.

00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:47.519
She is not afraid to stake out a parking lot and bird dog anybody who walks in or out of a building to try and get information and try and push her reporting forward.

00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:52.480
And that sort of aggressive stance is exactly what you want in a in a case like this.

00:26:52.559 --> 00:27:10.160
And so I have no doubt that over the years she has built up uh, and she actually said this um the day after, I think there was a clip uh that they posted on News Nation where she explains, you know, I've been doing this a long time, I have a lot of sources in, and and she kept saying federal, federal law enforcement.

00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:14.799
Um, and and she had no reason to doubt this person.

00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:29.920
But what I what I also know is that whenever the FBI or the ATF or the feds get involved in a local case, obviously they there's a reporting chain and they have to brief everybody up the chain.

00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:38.079
Uh, they mentioned yesterday that Cash Patel is getting briefed like several times a day, I think was the word that um that the FBI guy used.

00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:47.680
And I think I've seen this happen before, where as the information goes up the chain, it's a little bit like the game of telephone.

00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:51.920
Like if you weren't in the room for the briefing, or maybe you heard it secondhand.

00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:58.480
So I could see a scenario where, for example, uh there was this report that all the cameras had been destroyed.

00:27:58.720 --> 00:27:59.359
Right.

00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:07.200
And I could see a scenario where the chief or the sheriff yesterday said, yeah, the camera was removed from the front door.

00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:20.960
I could see a scenario where, as that makes it up the chain, for example, that some federal source sitting in Washington, D.C., who has no real connection to the case other than they've been briefed on it, uh, describes that as, oh, all the cameras were destroyed.

00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:21.359
Right.

00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:28.880
I don't know, I don't know, I do not know what what happened, what happened in in that in that particular uh case.

00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:33.039
But um, yeah, so I think and and things change as things evolve.

00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:38.960
Like maybe there was a tip that came in about the brother-in-law that they felt they needed, you know, they're chasing everything, right?

00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:42.319
They're they're going to run the FBI calls it running everything to ground.

00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:46.799
They're every tip that comes in, they got to run it to ground and make sure that it that it doesn't go anywhere.

00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:51.759
And that could be what happened uh in the in the case of the brother-in-law.

00:28:52.000 --> 00:29:05.279
I will say that to its credit at ABC News, I would not have been able to go on the air with a single source naming somebody as a suspect or person of interest.

00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:07.359
Was she saying it was a single source?

00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:08.240
Because she was, right?

00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:10.160
She was saying my source.

00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:20.160
She said my source, and in the in the video that that they posted on News Nation, she she said she kept talking about a singular source.

00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:27.920
So does that mean it did to you and and and also I I believe that it matters?

00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:31.920
She's not reporting for NBC, she's not reporting for a network, right?

00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:38.160
News Nation is a different network, I think at a different level.

00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:42.720
Like I've seen them gone go with scoops before that no one picks up.

00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:48.079
I think they're like the the little kid, the little brother that nobody pays attention to.

00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:50.799
Yeah, I I think I do partially that.

00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:54.000
And um, but I also think it was accurate.

00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:58.240
She wasn't saying that her source said the brother-in-law was guilty.

00:29:58.480 --> 00:29:58.880
Right.

00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:00.640
She was just saying that they were looking.

00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:27.359
They were looking, and and that that makes sense because in any any case like this, that's what my friend, my FBI guy said last night is they're gonna be questioning everybody, family members, they're gonna be canvassing the neighborhood, they're gonna be going to door door to door, they're gonna they're gonna talk to everybody, and like the sheriff said yesterday, we're talking to the Uber driver, we're talking to the gardener, we're talking to, you know, everybody is still a suspect, um, but we have no no no prime suspect.

00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:31.839
And and he also had an interesting phrase, which was we are not there yet.

00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:44.000
Which could be, you know, maybe we have somebody in mind, but we just haven't been able to put the to to prove it or put the to put the probable cause together, um, to go in.

00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:59.279
Um but yeah, so well now when so in that room, going back to that press conference yesterday, I thought I heard the the PIO say, or he said, we're only taking one question or two questions, and then they let it go on and on.

00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:12.079
But I felt the reporters were doing a better job investigating than it appeared the investigation out of Pima County was.

00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:15.359
It's in other words, and you'd call me because this is your point of view.

00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:32.079
Yeah, I felt like they had him, that he was so loose up there, so unorganized and distracted that they could push questions and volume questions back and forth to get him to say something.

00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:32.720
I agree.

00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:34.000
That sense, yeah.

00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:42.559
I got I get the sense that that probably in that room when when he keeps talking and he keeps answering questions, it's like, okay, this guy's not going anywhere.

00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:48.799
He's he's clearly uh you know here for a bit, and let's let's get in every question.

00:31:49.200 --> 00:32:13.440
Um on the investigative part, um, yeah, I I think that um one thing that maybe people don't understand about uh you know what what happens in high-profile cases like this, uh, especially at the the top networks like ABC and NBC, especially, and and probably CBS too, but entire editorial teams are assigned to work this case.

00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:18.640
So there are editorial producers who are making calls, following up on things.

00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:33.599
You know, it is like an investigation, like it really is, you know, they're they're chasing all kinds of leads as well, and they are hiring booking producers to go knock on doors, and and that they're doing all of they're doing all of these things.

00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:37.680
So it really is there is almost like this this parallel investigation.

00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:46.480
I I I've often said that we are, you know, reporters, journalists are not first responders, but we are like second responders.

00:32:47.200 --> 00:33:00.079
We have a lot in common with um with with detectives on a lot of days and you get the sense that um a lot of the networks and a lot of the outlets are are putting bigger teams like editorial teams out there, like a number of producers.

00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:01.519
Yeah, yeah.

00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:08.559
I think I think everybody, I think it's all hands on deck for uh in terms of like the the editorial and the hookers and the the producers on the ground.

00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:08.960
Yeah.

00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:22.079
Uh you mentioned this briefly uh uh about the uh uh the the bit about the the brother-in-law not being picked up by other outlets, and that is that is that is very telling.

00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:35.759
The if if you can't match it, given all of the uh law enforcement sources that a that an ABC would have or an NBC would have, I do think that is I do think that is is telling.

00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:43.359
Um because they've had time now and and they are talking to their sources all the time.

00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:56.160
And you know, one thing that I used to do, uh, and it worked uh most of the time, is that I would talk to a source or a PIO who couldn't talk about a case, the details of a case, because it was an active investigation.

00:33:56.319 --> 00:34:07.680
But I would say, look, or if something came out, if somebody broke a bit of news, I would go to them and say, Look, the last thing we want to do is repeat something that's not correct.

00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:15.440
So if I were to say, you know, like for you know, so and so reported there was a bloody clown mask under the bed.

00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:17.360
Like, if I say that, am I gonna be wrong?

00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:23.039
You know, then and usually there would be an off-the-record guidance kind of conversation about, yeah, don't say that.

00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:28.559
That's you know, don't you would be wrong if you said that, um, without giving away too many other details.

00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:42.480
So I think conversations like that were probably happening, and that is why I think that's why um my my guess is that these other networks and journalists were kind of waved off that report.

00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:51.519
Again, not to say that it wasn't correct at some point or elements of it were correct at some point, but a question though is it possible?

00:34:51.760 --> 00:35:00.800
Because I think I saw when Ashley Banfield was doing an interview with Megan Kelly, and it's the only reason why I would sit through an interview with Megan Kelly, frankly.

00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:05.840
Um but she had said, I have someone closing the investigation.

00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:19.360
And it to me alluding that perhaps it was someone in the sheriff's office, and maybe he was trying to it maybe wonder like a trial balloon exactly.

00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:22.639
Yeah, could it be a leak or could it be containing that?

00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:23.840
Could it be containing that?

00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:27.440
So when you're sitting in that room too, I think there's a takeaway.

00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:30.559
Like you said, you do mediators training now, I do media training.

00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:34.000
I'm a big person, especially in the middle of a crisis.

00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:37.760
Like, I like showing emotion, especially if you're at the center of something.

00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:38.159
Sure.

00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:48.559
Even if you are in law enforcement, you don't have to, you can show emotion for a family, and and it can be very heartfelt.

00:35:49.119 --> 00:36:01.599
But to me, uh from for me watching it, it felt like uh Sheriff Nanios, instead of being more emotive, he seemed more rattled by everything.

00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:13.440
So if you're a predictor there in that room, respondent, are you trusting this person that they're running the investigation well, or is he is he scrambling back on the heels, as I said?

00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:16.320
I think he's scrambling back on on his heels.

00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:29.760
And you know what happens is in the absence of clarity and and hard information that they present in a in a confident manner, you know, this is 2026.

00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:37.760
There are so many armchair detectives out there, and stories and conspiracies take and you you lose the narrative at that point.

00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:43.679
And I think that um I think that that's kind of what's happening to him a little bit.

00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:48.239
He he is better in the one-on-ones, uh, when he's not facing a room full of lights.

00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:49.599
I know to say, yeah.

00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:52.239
And I think his PIO is prepping him.

00:36:52.320 --> 00:37:00.320
Like, I think he goes in there with talking points, but when you put someone in front of a mic, I'm sure you know this, sit down and interview someone.

00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:02.480
It's it it well, actually being interviewed.

00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:04.880
I can say this too, having done work interviews.

00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:07.119
Yeah, very different when it's one-on-one.

00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:10.880
When you're doing a press conference, there are a lot, and it's not easy.

00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:12.480
We got to give the guy credit here.

00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:23.920
It's not, but comparatively, he's standing there next to a special agent in charge in Tucson, and and the two it's very noticeable, very, very different, very, very different.

00:37:24.400 --> 00:37:28.400
Let me just ask your personal opinion too, since I have you in our couple in our last couple minutes.

00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:32.000
Um, they they released the video, the family dump.

00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:38.800
Yes, yes, video, and then the brother, Cameron, Sabanna Gusry's brother, releases another one.

00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:40.400
Yeah, what's going on there?

00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:41.599
Do you have any sense?

00:37:42.000 --> 00:38:00.000
My my sense is the uh I I have no information other than an educated guess, which was that we we did learn, and this was another thing that I was surprised they put out in the press conference, the timing of the ransom note, which was a little confusing to me because it was like, okay, the deadline's 5 p.m.

00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:02.800
today, but then like it moves to Monday.

00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:05.039
Like that was very confusing.

00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:12.639
You know, the the terms change, like, explain why, you know, either explain why there's two deadlines or don't talk about it at all.

00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:21.920
Did you notice when they were doing that, the FBI agent he went back and he kept ear the look his look of his clothes and all, yeah, you know, who wanted to come out?

00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:25.199
Yeah, so so that was that was a surprise.

00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:34.159
Um, but I think um, you know, what I've what I've read and what I've seen is that that that second family video from uh Savannah's brother came up right at 5 p.m.

00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:36.000
yesterday, uh right at the deadline.

00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:38.320
So I mean why don't make that connection?

00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:42.000
Let's yeah, so it would maybe like let's put something out right at the deadline.

00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:47.840
So if there is a kidnapper out there, maybe they're they're paying attention and and see this this note.

00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:57.199
Um but you know, again, there was no uh and this is this is unusual, is that there was no way to contact uh a supposed kidnapper.

00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:04.800
Uh so how are you, you know, how are you supposed to make this make this we're just gonna consume the chat who's who's paying attention to this?

00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:10.159
I did not I did not make that connection that the brothers video came out at the timeline.

00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:17.119
And and I assume we're saying here Harvey, that could be Harvey Levin, because Harvey Levin, I guess, has the ransom note too.

00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:19.360
And also the FBA agent in charge said the same thing.

00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:21.199
Yeah, deadlines.

00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:25.679
This was the public, this was the the note that went to the news organizations, they said.

00:39:26.079 --> 00:39:29.760
What do you make of a ransom note having two deadlines?

00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:39.039
Well, uh, you know, one of the things that I'd read is that that there was like the stakes apparently are higher with the the second deadline.

00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:45.679
Like if you if you don't respond by Friday, then you know this is gonna get worse, or you know, maybe there was a threat contained in there.

00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:46.880
I I I don't know.

00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:59.199
Um but there was some indication that that I've read uh where that that those that the second note, the second deadline was supposed to be uh more consequential for for whatever reason.

00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:08.079
Um with that though, do you think the family uh uh believes uh did you talk about this with your source?

00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:10.480
Do you think the family believes that she is being held?

00:40:11.119 --> 00:40:26.480
We didn't we didn't talk about that specifically, but I think that uh I think they're just I believe they're they're just pursuing all options and that the family you know could could could absolutely believe it.

00:40:26.559 --> 00:40:39.199
I mean you you you l watch the video and the emotion and everything is real and they seem to be uh you know, you know, talking to to someone like they're a real like they're a real person.

00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:44.639
Um that the whole the whole video is very interesting and and why they did it and and what involvement the other.

00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:48.400
Did you see the connection where some people were talking about silence of the lambs?

00:40:48.719 --> 00:40:50.800
No, it was well you didn't see that.

00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:57.519
Well, that some of the language in it and the setting was very similar, the same um video.

00:40:57.679 --> 00:40:58.960
Now, I didn't even look this up.

00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:00.559
I'm only getting my brain.

00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:06.400
I think it was the mother who was this the mother was a senator, maybe, and the daughter was kidnapped.

00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:09.039
That people are noticing that there's similarities there.

00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:09.920
Oh, okay.

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:11.360
Yeah, no, I I missed that.

00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:14.000
God oh boy, pull on Clayton.

00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:15.360
No, I I didn't even work out.

00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:18.719
I only saw I only saw it on social media that people were talking about it.

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:32.559
But but can I talk about the messaging that in that video at that because when it was first released, um, I I texted a friend of mine, uh, an ex uh CNN correspondent, and I and I said, Wow, this is right out of the FBI playbook.

00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:45.440
And there was this sort of questioning about how much the FBI was involved in the press conference, and I noticed that the FBI guy um kept saying, Well, this is the family's decision to put this video out.

00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:48.159
This is up to the family to deal with ransom.

00:41:48.239 --> 00:42:37.760
And it's I think that was a little odd to say, and and the more I the more I thought about it, I I think it's uh I think it's a PR move because I think what the FBI is trying to do is distance themselves from uh you know any any any notion that they wrote that statement or that they that they were involved in crafting it, although I am sure that they were because it had, if you notice the message had like some some boilerplate stuff, and then like in the middle, all of a sudden they would they would introduce and really try to humanize Nancy and put their own personal family perspectives and thoughts and emotion into it, but that whole the the statement was not consistent.

00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:46.159
There was language in there that I I believe the FBI gave them to uh to to help to help to help humanize the whole thing.

00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:57.360
And I and so I I kind of think the FBI wants to step back from that and let the family kind of lead on that, let the family, the family's story, the family's emotion lead on that.

00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:09.360
And also, as you mentioned, the PR of it, it's when this can because this case has so many eyes on it and it is so high profile, all the mistakes are gonna be out there as well.

00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:15.360
And people are gonna have to watch Savannah Guthrie on the air for the next how many years?

00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:17.519
Like it will always be that reminder.

00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:34.000
So someone in the chat had mentioned the line, the silence of the lamb line that is being pulled verbatim is um talk to her and you'll see that that's was spoken by Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs when speaking to Clarice Starling in the movie.

00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:36.000
So oh geez, okay.

00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:37.519
I mean, I don't know.

00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:41.039
I I don't I I don't know like who is helping.

00:43:41.119 --> 00:43:52.639

What Went Wrong at the Nancy Guthrie Press Conference

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